Federal Aboriginal intervention (4 Viewers)

[banco55]

the thing is the 'compulsory schooling for welfare' plan is stupid, why does it only have to apply to aboriginals? (According to Johnny Howard it only applies to aboriginals). I think a few more areas need that plan too, why stop at the NT?

Well for one thing the administrative costs of monitoring etc. would probably be high so I assume that they are limiting the program to where it's most needed.

 

[MuffinMan]

Well for one thing the administrative costs of monitoring etc. would probably be high so I assume that they are limiting the program to where it's most needed.

The thing is, I don't think it'll be sustained. When the elections over we'll be lucky to ever hear about this issue again (well until the next election). If it's to be implemented it has to be implemented nationally, currently theres a big loophole where you can just head to darwin or alice and then drink there, doesn't solve the problem at all. How about addiction? Everyone knows that an alcoholic isn't going to stop drinking once alcohol is illegal.

 

[spiny norman]

I don't like it. After eleven years as Prime Minister, Howard has suddenly discovered that things are fucked with the Aboriginals, just months out from his closest federal election ever?

And really, what's going to happen? If someone's seen drinking alcohol or watching pornography, are we going to arrest them? Where's the mention of improving gaols, which will need improved infrastructure to avoid overcrowding? Or will we fine them, in which case they'll have even less money to spend on essentials than they did before? And where's he going to change the education system, which has apparentally failed to fix these issues over the generations, but will now because schooling is mandatory?

Incredibly flawed. Howard is playing politics, and those who say otherwise are either incredibly biased or incredibly naive. Sadly the main person arguing against Howard in here is doing so quite terribly, but that's life.

 

[withoutaface]

The problem is that these communities do not have enough jobs for the population to get, they should be forced to move, and mathmite the unemployment etc rates for aboriginals are lower in cities than in rural areas.

 

[banco55]

The thing is, I don't think it'll be sustained. When the elections over we'll be lucky to ever hear about this issue again (well until the next election). If it's to be implemented it has to be implemented nationally, currently theres a big loophole where you can just head to darwin or alice and then drink there, doesn't solve the problem at all. How about addiction? Everyone knows that an alcoholic isn't going to stop drinking once alcohol is illegal.

I saw some story a couple of nights ago about how they shut the local bar in northern queensland and the amount of alcohol consumption dropped dramatically and there wasn't a mass exodus. Of course there are always loopholes but if you are on welfare and all your family/friends are in the town you aren't that likely to pack everything up and head to the nearest town with a bar.

 

[MuffinMan]

You really haven't seen people addicted to alcohol or drugs have you?

 

[NamelessOne]

*snip*

 

[Aryanbeauty]

I wonder why the so called lefties support paedophiles raping boys and girls and wants them to continue because it is their culture?

John Howard will be regarded as the saviour of aboriginals by the children he'll save with this policy. A genius, indeed.

 

[Serius]

It sounds like the most half-arsed policy ever. Good intentions [hopefully] but a really bad way of going about it. Oh yeah, lets bring in the military to take things over, force the land owners to let anyone enter their property, and restrict things that should be taken as a given to a free man, booze and porn. Lets do some empathy here, how do you think these people are going to see this? do you think perhaps it rings clear as another invasion day? bringing in the military to take over property sounds exactly like what britain did all those years ago.

I dont really like the idea of the government taking such control over alcohol distribution either. It seems like the first step into outlawing it completely, or introducing the dry county system that they have in america [actually it sounds exactly like that].

Porn? well i dont really get this bit, sounds like a bit of a joke to me, how the hell do they outlaw porn? and why? and even if there is a decent reason its still not right.

This is the reason why i think some of our rights need to be cemented in a constitution, because howard is slowly eroding all the rights we used to take for granted.

It stinks of racism to me, also paternalism. Decent intentions, but the policy has no backbone to follow through on it. No support services, no AA funding, no counseling or education. Definite knee jerk reaction and i dont think anyone can argue against the fact that it shows racial prejudice. All this after john howard made a statement that he doesnt think australia is inherently racist. Well i dont think it is either, but he sure as hell is doing his best to make me change that opinion.

 

[frog12986]

This isn't and should not be about preserving the 'rights of the Aboriginal population. It is about the rights of the child and our obligations under the CROC. The lefties and bleeding hearts will deploy the 'electioneering' and 'racist' overtones, however I would much prefer to place the plight of the children in these communities at the forefront, irrespective of the impact it has upon their 'culture'.

 

[banco55]

sums things up well:

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/06/23/cartoon230607_gallery__470x318.jpg

 

[Justin]

This isn't and should not be about preserving the 'rights of the Aboriginal population. It is about the rights of the child and our obligations under the CROC.

Once again, bleeding heart frog12986 to the rescue. You care so much about aboriginal children. It's great to see, seeing as you're just a caring nice person and all. We need to defend these children, contrary to what the bloody communists say!!!!

I wonder why the so called lefties support paedophiles raping boys and girls and wants them to continue because it is their culture?

John Howard will be regarded as the saviour of aboriginals by the children he'll save with this policy. A genius, indeed.

You know, it's great to see so many of BOS's traditional bleeding heart libertarians, ON THIS FORUM, supporting this move to protect Australia's indigenous people. It's just amazing, the great show of compassion that the long list of libertarians on this thread support protecting Aboriginals so much.

Aryanbeauty.. YET ANOTHER bleeding heart hippy with a soft spot in his heart for Australia's Indigenous people. Awww, you make me feel all warm and cosy.

I think it is a poor and authoritarian attempt by the government to put on the emergency brakes on a problem that should have been delt with long ago. There is also a large list of problems facing by the indigenous community that the government is currently doing nothing about.

No. This is where you're wrong. Because people can pull up 2 points in defence of this accusation. The first, is that the report has only recently been released. The second is that STATE LABOR GOVERNMENTS have not done anything to solve the problem.

This isn't a plan to protect indigenous people. This isn't a plan to take away rights of indigenous people. It's a plan to divide and conquer the electorate.

I don't like it. After eleven years as Prime Minister, Howard has suddenly discovered that things are fucked with the Aboriginals, just months out from his closest federal election ever?

No, but protecting Aboriginals is not something that typically wins a great deal of votes. This isn't a stunt to make people say "aww, he cares about aboriginals, lets vote for him", it's designed to fuck peoples minds over and divide them, it's designed to rally the troops (as evidenced by this thread, we have about 200 conservative fuckwits on here making out that they actually care about the welfare of indigenous children), take a swipe at state labor governments, etc.

It's also designed to hit at that soft spot in everyones mind. The soft spot which rightfully puts John Howard in 1950's Australia. But not for racial reasons. For economic reasons alone.

John Howard, playing a race card near an election. How rare.

 

[wheredanton]

Key Points
- Alcohol banned for 6 months

Yes

- Pornography banned

Is there a porn problem in ATSI communities?

- Welfare payments quarantined

Yes, but it kinda assumes that these troubled peoples will suddenly turn around from being welfare dependent to upstanding citizens who believe in personal responsibility. It assumes that money is a motivator for ATSI people (For many I believe it's not important). It will take time for this shift in outlook to occur. Denial of welfare is a right step to teaching ATSI peoples personal responsibility, but I think it may cause much short term pain.

The cynical in me says this is an election year ploy, and in reality nothing much will change. Any impact will be out of sight for a great majority of the population who like the policy because it gets tough on welfareism (regardless of whether it is directly at ATSI people, white trash or lebs).

- School attendence[sic] enforced

Yes

- Compulsary[sic] health checks

Yes

 

[Justin]

It doesn't get tough on welfarism though.

I prefer a top down approach to dealing with the problem. These people are not products of their own choices (contrary to what wankers on here will say) - given the choice, no body here would choose to live like they do. They are the products of continual disadvantage, and to place the onus of "gaining responsibility" on them by quarantining their payments is ridiculous. Especially when gaining responsibility is meant to entail pleasing "white man" more than it is pleasing "aboriginal man".

As seen here, we have many 'white' morons who, on every other day of the year are economically marginalised conservatives (the irony being that the person they support is the reason for their discomfort) who swear by unflinching authoritarianism, and promote closet racism like its OK, yet on this issue they magically have a high regard for the welfare of Aboriginal children. Because the abuse of such children conflicts and interferes with their "smooth" nationalist fantasy.

 

[jb_nc]

Is there a porn problem in ATSI communities?

Um if by "porn problem" you mean "used to desensitise children as young as three to sex" then yes, there is in these communities.

 

[Justin]

Um if by "porn problem" you mean "used to desensitise children as young as three to sex" then yes, there is in these communities.

How many white victims of child abuse are desensitised by being exposed to X rated porn?

(I would say not many). What makes it a characteristic of black child abuse then?

 

[jb_nc]

What makes it a characteristic of black child abuse then?

The report which made the government acts directly links both pornography as a desensitising agent to child abuse.

 

[Justin]

That doesn't answer the question.

 

[jb_nc]

That doesn't answer the question.

How am I to know "what makes it a characteristic of black child abuse?" Do you know?

Apparently the authors of this report said that it was a characteristic of the abuse, but don't take their word for it.

 

[frog12986]

Once again, bleeding heart frog12986 to the rescue. You care so much about aboriginal children. It's great to see, seeing as you're just a caring nice person and all. We need to defend these children, contrary to what the bloody communists say!!!!

You can't presume to know me, or my views in relation to the sexual abuse of Aboriginal children, or children in general. Their background is irrelevant here. Steps need to be taken to address the issue, irrespective of the impact upon their 'aboriginality'. I have not for one moment, altered my views in relation to the plight of 'Aboriginal Activists' as this is not about them or their 'quest' for freedom, it's about the basic right of any child to live free from sexual and physical abuse.

The fact that there is such a heavy concentration of incidents within these communities, and the fact that the communities are Aboriginal, is not incidental. This is not about whether they are 'Aboriginal' or 'Spanglish', it is about the deep seated culture of sexual abuse within a particular group of communities. The academic solutions have failed, will continue to fail, and achieve nothing but a worsening of the situation for the people in these communities.

There are many other caucasion and ethnic communities across the country with the same issues on a less concentrated and smaller scale. Similar action should be taken acroos the country, however the states need to provide their Community Service Departments with more power, and governments need to get their hands 'dirty'. The reluctance to intervene in these issues is largely associated with risk, and the widespread belief, particularly at a state level, that risk should be transferred away from the public sector. The pendulum has swung too far the other way, and leaving these people to their own devices has intensified the situation to a much greater extent than would otherwise be the case.

I suggest you go and live for a week in one of these areas, or even in the houso's out in Western Sydney. That is the greatest problem with the academic world. It is confined to the walls of academic institutions and the reality of situations are largely superceded by 'research' and 'social theory'..