Habib on 60 Minutes (1 Viewer)

Jonathan A

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soha said:
yes they do..
we have family friends who have been chased
and ..they have done nothing..poor ppl
like this one guy who was gonna marry my sister but he went somewhere and didnt come back for a while
turns out asio was on his back
they took away his plane license and all this shit from him coz he was a suspected terrorist
and all he wanted to do was become a pilot etc
and i know other ppl..but too many stories
and i can guarantee they are so not terrorists

These are precautions taken by the departments and I can only take your word for it, what makes it harder is ASIO is a secret agency. What I will say though is that those who are innocent will generally be released. Its like being stopped for an RBT, you may say how dare the police suspect me of being a drink driver, however its for the good of everyone around you.
 
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katie_tully

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well, then the american government would've tried to find evidence to prove him guilty or create one. You how powerful America is. Except they couldn't. And I don't think you can speak on behalf of pakistani's. I'm pretty sure most of them would think he's innocent. I'm australian but I don't think he's guilty. So that's a stereotypical statement you've got there.
GAH.

YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT.

There is more to this than "they didnt have evidence, they couldnt convict him".

If they took Habib to trial, it would endanger, and blow the cover of undercover informants. It would reveal their identities. It's not worth the effort to convict one man, and kick start the downfall of another.

He is still under suspicion.

As for the torture claims, I don't believe them.
 

Jonathan A

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sly fly said:
i think he's innocent.....ive actually met his wife, she's amazing, she's heaps nice and but anyway as for him, i havent met him but im assuming he's nice coz his family is. He's probly innocent coz if he wasnt it wouldnt have taken them 3years to try and find a charge on him (which they didnt anyway)

Firstly I want to clarify, just because you meet a criminal's family, doesn't mean you can determine guilt of the individual - this is in general. That is why our criminal justice system only punishes the criminal themselves and for the act. You can be the nicest person, but you will be judged for your act, not yourself. In this case it was evidence as you pointed out.

You can't assume a person is nice because of their family. There is no evidence nor is that persuasive in a courtroom. You can't assume anything with criminal behaviour.

As for the three years, there are many reasons for the delay, most of them are top secret at present for defence purposes.
 

Jonathan A

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Kulazzi said:
of course gaol isn't fun but I'm pretty sure electric shocks, having cigarette burns to his body, being beaten, having a prostitute with a used tampon in her hand and having a picture of his wife's face among near-naked women and osama is certainly nowhere near being a humanly treatment.


I don't know which world you've been living in mate :rolleyes:

No one but Amnesty International and Red Cross can substantiate these claims.

Amnesty view the simple act of imprisonment in other countries as a violation of human rights - its pointless asking them and as for Red Cross, they should just stick to the Blood Banks.
 

leetom

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katie_tully said:
GAH.

YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT.

There is more to this than "they didnt have evidence, they couldnt convict him".

If they took Habib to trial, it would endanger, and blow the cover of undercover informants. It would reveal their identities. It's not worth the effort to convict one man, and kick start the downfall of another.

He is still under suspicion.

As for the torture claims, I don't believe them.
Undercover informants? That sounds very mythical. Just what would undercover informants, if any were involved, have to do with charging Habib. I demand a possible scenario in which the protection of undercover agents was so paramount as to release Habib without charge, despite being able to convict him.

Habib was sent to Egpyt by the Americans. The only reason why he was sent to Egypt was so the Americans would not have to observe the niceties of human rights and have the Eqyptians carry out torture for them.

Links to terrorists or not, Habib was tortured, and deserves every compensation he receives.
 

blackfriday

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i actually just think he just owns a few opium poppy fields and he got nabbed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, hence that he wont say anything about his time in afghanistan.
 

Jonathan A

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Kulazzi said:
The reason why he's not answering those questions is because he's going to answer them in court and does not want to leak it to the media (yet). Otherise the media will crazy (as they tend to do at times).

And how would you know what terrorists are trained to do? Have you managed to grab one of these so-called "terrorist training handbooks" and read them?

You did not see a few bruises on his body or are you going to tell me that he caused it himself?

If you claim that they are trained to make torture claims, how come the Egyptians or US (whoever tortured him) hasn't been release a public statement confirming that they haven't tortured him? I'm sure they would've by now if your claim is true.

Let me guess. You're either a CIA or ASIO agent.

Firstly, our courts are quite advanced, they don't operate like they do on the American Courtroom Drama shows where lawyers try and leak info. Our Court system is very transparent and open, these comments will come out sooner or later, its just that Mr Habib in court will have the protection of a judge if a question goes out of line, he doesn't have that protection with a journo.

About what terrorists are trained to do, I suggest you ask a New Yorker who was there in Septemder 2001 of what terrorists are trained to do.

As for the bruises, I get bruises too from my martial arts training, however I don't run around saying they are from ASIO or the CIA. Who is to say he didn't do that to himself, you say he wouldn't, but look at it this way - you are on public trial here for having links with one of the most outrageous attacks to innocent people, are a couple of DIY burns going to be too painful to prove your innocence? Also, when you look at a terrorist, don't think in your mindframe, you are socialised to believe in accordance with the morals of your family, community and society, Habib if a terrorist, would have a different mindset, especially if he has a belief that his attacks are going to be rewarded in an afterlife. Best to think amorally about this one.
 

Not-That-Bright

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hay guys, hows bout we just follow socialist alliances manifesto 2004 and just get rid of our anti-terrorism laws.
Like u kno, we all know we - america and australia are the true terrorists!!!
 

Not-That-Bright

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Your high test scores in some fields lead you to believe you are more intelligent than most, and therefor have higher knowledge than people in ANY field, not just the one which you specialise in.
So you think you can judge others, even on matters of opinion.
 

Kulazzi

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Jonathan A said:
Firstly, our courts are quite advanced, they don't operate like they do on the American Courtroom Drama shows where lawyers try and leak info. Our Court system is very transparent and open, these comments will come out sooner or later, its just that Mr Habib in court will have the protection of a judge if a question goes out of line, he doesn't have that protection with a journo.

About what terrorists are trained to do, I suggest you ask a New Yorker who was there in Septemder 2001 of what terrorists are trained to do.

As for the bruises, I get bruises too from my martial arts training, however I don't run around saying they are from ASIO or the CIA. Who is to say he didn't do that to himself, you say he wouldn't, but look at it this way - you are on public trial here for having links with one of the most outrageous attacks to innocent people, are a couple of DIY burns going to be too painful to prove your innocence? Also, when you look at a terrorist, don't think in your mindframe, you are socialised to believe in accordance with the morals of your family, community and society, Habib if a terrorist, would have a different mindset, especially if he has a belief that his attacks are going to be rewarded in an afterlife. Best to think amorally about this one.
You cannot guarantee that. The media is curious to know everything. I agree with the judge security part.

I know what terrorists are trained to do but how can you verify that Habib was trained to have all of this done to him and then lay the blame on America/Egypt/Australia? And as I said before, America can come right out denying this if it's not true.

I'm sure Habib did not do martial arts in guantanamo bay. And if he did do some bruising himself in guantanamo bay, then I'm sure they'll have security footage showing this and will come right out saying "Ah no! He did it himself while in g.b." And I can assure you if he was a terrorist and he caused all these attacks then it won't be counted as a reward as an afterlife. Allah (SWT) does not allow the killing of innocent people and if the terrorists think that they do, then they're most likely going to be in Hell.
 

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leetom said:
Undercover informants? That sounds very mythical. Just what would undercover informants, if any were involved, have to do with charging Habib. I demand a possible scenario in which the protection of undercover agents was so paramount as to release Habib without charge, despite being able to convict him.

Habib was sent to Egpyt by the Americans. The only reason why he was sent to Egypt was so the Americans would not have to observe the niceties of human rights and have the Eqyptians carry out torture for them.

Links to terrorists or not, Habib was tortured, and deserves every compensation he receives.
To charge him with offences, they would need to show how they got their information about him, which includes the methods used by agents to gather this information. This would jeorpadise any future missions by intelligence officers, because now their tactics are out in the open, and know to all. This would make their jobs and even lives that much more dangerous.

And don't forget he was captured by PAKISTAN first, who was also involved in sending Habib to Egypt. So if you would like to blame America, then to make in fair and balanced, you should also direct your anger to pakistan
 
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katie_tully

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If he has nothing to hide, he would explain why he was in the country, and how he as a cleaner, could pay for several trips abroad.
 

leetom

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Riewe said:
To charge him with offences, they would need to show how they got their information about him, which includes the methods used by agents to gather this information. This would jeorpadise any future missions by intelligence officers, because now their tactics are out in the open, and know to all. This would make their jobs and even lives that much more dangerous.

And don't forget he was captured by PAKISTAN first, who was also involved in sending Habib to Egypt. So if you would like to blame America, then to make in fair and balanced, you should also direct your anger to pakistan
Protecting 'undercover agents' is just a myth concocted by the BOS Right in an attempt to justify the release of, in the opionion of the BOS Right- a terrorist.

To me, it seems like a fairly foolish way of capturing terrorists. Think about it- letting one terrorist go in the hope of catching another?

I'm fairly certain that even if evidence that prooved Habib was indeed a terrorist existed, the government department (ASIO, CIA for eg) would be called upon in court to explain, not the individual agent who uncovered the evidence. There are systems in place to make certain that the identities of government agents are kept secret.

Again, releasing a convictable terrorist to keep secret the identity of agents? If this is the case, how does the government expect to capture ANY terrorists?

The BOS Right is wrong. Admit it.
 

leetom

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katie_tully said:
If he has nothing to hide, he would explain why he was in the country, and how he as a cleaner, could pay for several trips abroad.
Wait for court. We'll know then.
 
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katie_tully

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leetom said:
Protecting 'undercover agents' is just a myth concocted by the BOS Right in an attempt to justify the release of, in the opionion of the BOS Right- a terrorist.

To me, it seems like a fairly foolish way of capturing terrorists. Think about it- letting one terrorist go in the hope of catching another?

I'm fairly certain that even if evidence that prooved Habib was indeed a terrorist existed, the government department (ASIO, CIA for eg) would be called upon in court to explain, not the individual agent who uncovered the evidence. There are systems in place to make certain that the identities of government agents are kept secret.

Again, releasing a convictable terrorist to keep secret the identity of agents? If this is the case, how does the government expect to capture ANY terrorists?

The BOS Right is wrong. Admit it.
No...I'm fairly certain the BOS right is RIGHT. It;s not some conspiracy we came up with after slamming our heads together.
 

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