Important - New Legislation - Read! (1 Viewer)

[cool boy 371]

alright i have returned, for one day only coz this is important and i know that on bos i have the power of numbers behind me

the federal government today is passing legislation that will mean that compulsory contributions by students towards the student union will be made voluntary - ie no-one will pay.

this will save us about $400 a year (considering the average is $200/semester).

however - this $200 is coming at quite a price. for my university anyway. i am interested to know what the situation will be like with yours.

i am an employee of the uts union at kuringai, and enjoy my job. i will be losing it. so will all of my fellow employees. the bar will no longer be operating at such a cheap price and providing employment. the eatery will be jacking up its prices because it will no longer be subsidiesed by the not-for-profit union. clubs and societies that arent' huge will cease to have the resources to exist. sport and recreation days will cease to exist. the union gym will cease to function at such a cheap price. the daily entertainment (movie screenings, live bands, stand up comedians, etc) will not be able to come, as there won't be the resources to pay for them.

it's all well and good to say 'yes, but if you want them, then you can pay for it - it's voluntary'.......but how is one voluntary payment of $200 going to be able to cover all of these things? if they make live bands at lunchtime etc tickets only, how is it gonna b practical to kick people out of the eatery that were already in there to start off with, so people without tickets didnt get to view it without paying?

the fact of the matter is that the government believes that in this day and age, it shouldn't be compulsory to be part of a union. however, i believe that it is situations ike this that show's their value - however their power is overruled by that of the federal government, as they have the power in both houses and effectively can pass almost any legislation which they want to.

the majority of campus life will be gone this time next year, because of this.

$200 a semester is really not a big contribution in the scheme of things, and it provides good value when you think of all the social events, food, drinks, gyms, clubs, activities, parties, trips and services (doctors, legal advice, councelling) that they provide

i know that students struggle for money - i have $30 to my name at the moment........but i would rather have $400 a year out of pocket and enjoy my university experience than university being 'just class' --- these are supposed to be the best days of our lives, and they're being taken away by the federal government's shithouse new legislation that they're about to pass the bill on.

i am interested on your thoughts in the matter - and i truly believe that this is a case where the student community ------ bos has heaps of members ------ can come together, and this internet forum can actually be used to it's maximum potetntial by us all uniting as one for once (ironic as that may seem coming from me)

please let me know of your thoughts, and hopefully we can all rally together and make a difference.

a politician's weakness is their desire for votes........we are all students and young voters - they won't want to get us all offside

we need to make a difference, coz i really dont want my years of university to be boring, or yours

so let me know what you think........and let's all make a difference.

thanks and have a good day

matt coss

 

[cool boy 371]

Student union says fees abolition a joke
12:15 AEDT Wed Mar 16 2005


The federal government was about to implement a scorched earth policy on university campuses with its bill to abolish compulsory student union fees, the National Union of Students (NUS) has said.

The move would make Australia an international joke, NUS president Felix Eldridge said.

Education Minister Brendan Nelson has introduced a bill to parliament to abolish student unions' compulsory collection of fees at universities and make student union membership voluntary.

He told parliament that students at Australia's higher education institutions were denied the right of freedom of association but the proposed law would give them choices.

Mr Eldridge said that at universities around the world, for over 100 years, student organisations and student service fees had funded everything on campus other than purely academic activities.

"What the minister and the government is paying to do is absolutely ridiculous," he told reporters.



"It will make Australia's universities into an international joke and it will make them a lot less internationally competitive.

"(The government) has expressed concerns but the policy that they have now is a scorched earth policy," he said.

Mr Eldridge said he had been granted a meeting with Education Minister Brendan Nelson on Wednesday to discuss the issue.

"I hope he's going to explain to us how on earth he thinks universities are going to continue to provide all the services they've provided for over 100 years, after this legislation's been passed," he said.

"What they want to do is get rid of childcare, get rid of welfare services, get rid of food and beverage facilities on campuses, get rid of pretty much everything other than lectures and tutorials on university campuses, regardless of the things that are provided by student organisations.

"Everyone contributes because everyone benefits from something that's provided.




©AAP 2005

 

[LazyBoy]

It took me heaps of effort and struggling to raise the 600 bucks, but i do not regret paying a cent. These services make uni life. USYD would be a very different place without manning, wentworth. Ill be paying an extra 40cents in coke. That means ill be able to have one less coke a week. (not to mention the money i save on beer! lol)

But think about other services such as interest free student loans, accomodation, social activities etc. What the howard government is doing is nothing more then cultural homocide targeted at quashing the student movement which typically opposes the howard government.

 

[Lazarus]

If the services that are being provided by Unions are worthwhile, why wouldn't students just continue to pay their contributions anyway?

And if they're not worthwhile, does it really matter if they're not being provided?

 

[Lazarus]

I can't see any real reason for Unions continuing to provide services to students who refuse to contribute.

Someone pointed out in another thread that the Unions won't have enough resources to continue providing their services to everyone. But I can't really see the logic behind this - they won't be providing those services to everyone, only to those who contribute. In the past, everyone contributed, and everyone had access to Union services.

The situation really isn't changing... sure, less people might contribute, but less people will have access too. The fact that those proportions are remaining the same should keep everything balanced.

But yes... I do like to have faith. I remember the HECS-deregulation bandwagon that everyone jumped on - and then the UAI cut-offs went down and 15% more offers were made to students.

 

[Lazarus]

I'd say you're probably right on the money there.

 

[LazyBoy]

Laz i really dont think that will happen as you say.

1. Everyone pays now
2. Not everyone uses every service
3. Some people use more services then others
4. Hence theres more then enough to pay for everything.


1. Few people pay
3. Not everyone uses every service
4. Some people use more services then others
5. Not enough money to cover this.

 

[Lazarus]

I think the fallacy in your argument is that you are assuming that the services will still be available to everyone.

If your first step ("Few people pay") comes about, then only those "few people" will have access to the services. The total pool of people using the services will have decreased commensurately with the resources available for the services.

It's ludicrous to suggest that Unions will continue to provide services to students who don't contribute.

 

[LazyBoy]

no your right there, but the fact that means they dont have access to those services something which according to the libs wont occur under VSU.

But again talking from a USYD perspective everyone still will use some of the services (like societies, manning, wenworth) but they wont get discounts.

What im guessing will happen is, if very little people pay for these services, then places like manning bar, wentworth will close down because they wont be able to meet costs, and even union members wont get these services.

 

[Lazarus]

Presumably, anyone who isn't a member would have to pay more so that those costs could be met - thereby enticing them to become a member.

Most problems have solutions... but most people just don't think about them.

 

[LazyBoy]

yeah, but i think racing the price of a beer wont cover the cost of running manning. It isnt that popular to sustain the bar. Why is it popular now? because its cheap. People will easily walk across the road to a better pub if they no longer get cheap booze.

But yeah what usyd has roughly 10 000 students by memory (probably more or maybe less)

thats 10 000 x 600 which is 6 000 000 that goes to the union (lets make that 4 Million because im sure some of it goes elsewhere)

Thats 4 Million dollars for expenses. Yes there will be less people using financial services and such. But social type services there will still be a use of (people will pay slightly extra). But the income generated that used to not only subdidise, but pay for costs of building maintenance, staff etc will eat up most of those funds so it will be a hell of alot harder to maintain these services for union members (even with having none union members pay more).

 

[Lazarus]

You make a valid point.

It'll be interesting to see what happens now.

Ultimately, if the Unions are afraid of dying, and truly want to stay alive, I believe they'll find a way to do so.

 

[babydoll_]

But I reckon if VSU goes ahead (which seems likely) the more apathetic portion of students will elect not to pay. If they don't pay, then services are reduced, which puts off other students from continuing to pay union fees. "Oh, well there's less stuff, why should I bother to pay when I can't get everything I got before? Forget it."

There will be a few hardcore students (like me) who will continue to pay to use union services, but on the whole, VSU will have a pretty negative effect IMO. It's a bit of a domino effect.

 

[withoutaface]

It took me heaps of effort and struggling to raise the 600 bucks, but i do not regret paying a cent. These services make uni life. USYD would be a very different place without manning, wentworth. Ill be paying an extra 40cents in coke. That means ill be able to have one less coke a week. (not to mention the money i save on beer! lol)

Bars outside the uni manage to survive without $600 compulsory contribution from every patron.

 

[sarevok]

I think it's good news. $600 a year is ridiculous, I have enough trouble with my finances without paying for services that I don't use.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I don't understand how most of these services won't be able to continue to run...
Things like 'focus groups' and 'collectives' could just be run out of some guys house if u really wanna

I'm 120% sure that things will work out into a balance where ALMOST the same services are provided, and a large proportion of people don't have to pay.

 

[Generator]

Bars outside the uni manage to survive without $600 compulsory contribution from every patron.

People tend to frequent those bars that aren't on campus, though .

I stand by my earlier comments in another thread... The student organisations are of use to us all, yet do we all actually know what is available? As Lazarus implied, perhaps VSU will be the spark that will finally see the organisations bother with the wider student body rather than just rely on the few who care about the organisations in their entirety. Despite that, I still stand for USU.

 

[LazyBoy]

You make a valid point.

It'll be interesting to see what happens now.

Ultimately, if the Unions are afraid of dying, and truly want to stay alive, I believe they'll find a way to do so.

I think mostly unis wont be affected as much, i have a feeling union fees *might go up slightly. But i also think many universities that have alot of 'rich' kids from private schools, it will matter less.

But i see it causing trouble for people who cannot afford to be members of the union in universities where theres lots of people who can. (i know i couldpossibly fall into that category, i struggled hard to get the 600 this year, and i know i will struggle to get it next year... but i will somehow even though i dont have to). Not only wil lthey be disadvantaged by not getting the services to them, but they could experience problems with union members. Its another howard attempt at increasing the class divide. (in case your saying that people payed it last year, they could do it again if thats what they are worried about see below)

I think the hardest hit university will be UWS, correct me if im wrong a large number of people who go to UWS are people from the west which is of lesser affluence. If they really dont have to pay for fees, then there will be many people who will use the money they normally would have had to pay, on something better such as bills and helping family out. In that case seeing as the ethos of UWS is to cater for this group, as seen with keeping lower HECS fees and more places. Then im guessing that will be the union that gets the least money. From what i here UWS has some really great facilities provided by its union (asociation?) so it would be a shame for the many students who go there.

This of course applies to the students from other areas going to the other universities, im just beleiving that UWS will be the hardest hit by this because of what ive picked up from Natstar that UWS is an extremly 'accessable' university financially.

 

[withoutaface]

There are plenty of westies at usyd, and UWS have a lot lower union fees than usyd.

 

[LazyBoy]

I don't understand how most of these services won't be able to continue to run...
Things like 'focus groups' and 'collectives' could just be run out of some guys house if u really wanna

I'm 120% sure that things will work out into a balance where ALMOST the same services are provided, and a large proportion of people don't have to pay.

What exactly do you think your union does?

- Provide funding for societys?

Think about this way:
Your union will run
- All union shops, bars etc including staff and all overheads
- Student Welfare services such as student loans, financial assistance, childcare assistance, housing (i think?), etc. They also then have to pay for staff etc to run these places.
- Student newspapers and another informational sources.
- Anything cultural is run by your union.


Now Say only 50% of people pay there sub fees. That means the union goes down from 6 million a year to 3 milllion (based on the USYD projected balance i guesstimated). So that automatically means less money for services in category one that everyone will still continue to use. Which means to cover that prices will go up, (spare discounts for people who are union members).

Category 2 would probably less affected, but will still be affected. Most probably the same people who need financial assistant are the people who cant afford to pay the union fees, so they wont. they will then be disadvantaged. greatly. Thankyou Johnny.

Category 3 and 4 will then not come into it, because all money will be driven into cat 1 and 2. And there you go, uni culture is fucked more than a chinese whore.