Islam Discussion (4 Viewers)

[hiphophooray123]

why do u only pick the bible and say it has been edited out of its true meaning? I think same would apply for the quran

the qua'ran cannot be edited, i think.

 

[Capitalist Pig]

ive noticed that whenever conversations questioning islam are brought about, terrorism is always the core of the argument. islam isnt all about fighting. it covers everything from life to after death, even toilet ettiquettes. but this is the only thing which seems harsh to todays democratic society, so they can only use that to argue to make them feel better

My main quips with religion in general are two issues:
1. It causes far too many wars.
2. It dictates too many aspects of believers lives, much of the time without any solid justification.
In this thread I've been arguing the second.

 

[SashatheMan]

ive noticed that whenever conversations questioning islam are brought about, terrorism is always the core of the argument. islam isnt all about fighting. it covers everything from life to after death, even toilet ettiquettes. but this is the only thing which seems harsh to todays democratic society, so they can only use that to argue to make them feel better

the reason terrorism is the core of the arguement, becuase its the main issue that effects innocent peoples lives. Why would i argue about toilet ettiquettes when it such a minor thing and it doesnt harm anyone. Terrorism is the result of quran allowing people to interpet it to a poiunt where people kill themselves and others. so far there hasnt been interpetations from eg bible which allowed mass murder of innocent people

 

[veterandoggy]

why do u only pick the bible and say it has been edited out of its true meaning? I think same would apply for the quran

allah said that he would protect the quran, and some wrong ones have been caught since, indicating that the quran we have today is the same quran revealed to muhammad

 

[SashatheMan]

the qua'ran cannot be edited, i think.

translating the quran into english is already a form of editing it. Then u traslate something from one language into another , its impossible to traslate it into exact same meaning as , some words may not exist which have a particular meaning in the other langauge.

 

[SashatheMan]

allah said that he would protect the quran, and some wrong ones have been caught since, indicating that the quran we have today is the same quran revealed to muhammad

yes some. and others made it through.

how do you explain picking up like 10 different qurans and they have differnt wording?

 

[veterandoggy]

My main quips with religion in general are two issues:
1. It causes far too many wars.
2. It dictates too many aspects of believers lives, much of the time without any solid justification.
In this thread I've been arguing the second.

it does this so that there are less conflicts with the way people live their lives, but if people want to conflict, they will always find a way

and for killing innocent people, there are more condemnings of evil than verses which could be misinterpreted. and what i mean is that there are many good thingsa about islam, which are shrouded by the things which people have decided to translate using their primitive wisdom

 

[veterandoggy]

yes some. and others made it through.

how do you explain picking up like 10 different qurans and they have differnt wording?

they wouldnt. then allah wouldnt be doing what he said right?

you talk like you have....

 

[veterandoggy]

no, only some reached the production stage

 

[veterandoggy]

translating the quran into english is already a form of editing it. Then u traslate something from one language into another , its impossible to traslate it into exact same meaning as , some words may not exist which have a particular meaning in the other langauge.

that is why there is a glossary to give a better meaning, or the more precise one

 

[SashatheMan]

they wouldnt. then allah wouldnt be doing what he said right?

you talk like you have....

mate allah can say not to do something, it doesnt mean that humans still wont do it. Anyone can make a fake interpretation of the quran, allah cant do shit about it.

its like saying allah is against killing a person , so if someone tries to kill a person some force will come and prevent him from doing so, its just ludacris to think that.

and look on the internet sites, theres like 10 differnt variations of each verse. and you said it yuorself that the differnt books hold differnt wording

 

[SashatheMan]

that is why there is a glossary to give a better meaning, or the more precise one

the glossory is still in english, which cant be translated exactly how it is intended

 

[Capitalist Pig]

it does this so that there are less conflicts with the way people live their lives, but if people want to conflict, they will always find a way

and for killing innocent people, there are more condemnings of evil than verses which could be misinterpreted. and what i mean is that there are many good thingsa about islam, which are shrouded by the things which people have decided to translate using their primitive wisdom

But the diversity of lifestyles is what makes a society interesting. Eg if everyone wore blue and listened to britney spears I'd certainly get bored pretty quickly, wouldn't you?

And as for condemning evil, should a murderer be judged on the many days he doesn't kill someone, or the one day that he doess?

 

[veterandoggy]

mate allah can say not to do something, it doesnt mean that humans still wont do it. Anyone can make a fake interpretation of the quran, allah cant do shit about it.

its like saying allah is against killing a person , so if someone tries to kill a person some force will come and prevent him from doing so, its just ludacris to think that.

and look on the internet sites, theres like 10 differnt variations of each verse. and you said it yuorself that the differnt books hold differnt wording

he will stop it from spreading too far

you dont understand. allah will protect the quran from tampering, not enforce its words

the true variations are very similar, and you shouldnt rely on the internet for quranic verses. besides, for the verses which may have differentmeanings the quran i have says which interpretation was taken in brackets.

the glossory is still in english, which cant be translated exactly how it is intended

exactly why the best references are in arabic. and exactly why youd get sucked in by any translation: you dont know if that is the true wording or not

 

[veterandoggy]

But the diversity of lifestyles is what makes a society interesting. Eg if everyone wore blue and listened to britney spears I'd certainly get bored pretty quickly, wouldn't you?

And as for condemning evil, should a murderer be judged on the many days he doesn't kill someone, or the one day that he doess?

yes i would, that is why there are different religions. the prophet didnt try killing every non muslim he saw, but he did banish the jews after they tried conspiring against him. and that isnt what i mean. i mean that if one wanted to look at how to do something, they needn't look far.

besides, we may say this, but if we lived up in a world of blue clothing loving britney spears we wouldnt realy get bored. did you read nineteen eighty four by george orwell? i think that is where you got the blue overalls thingy, huh.

 

[mr EaZy]

translating the quran into english is already a form of editing it. Then u traslate something from one language into another , its impossible to traslate it into exact same meaning as , some words may not exist which have a particular meaning in the other langauge.

Yep translating the Quran would be editing it- thats why we read it in arabic
The jews read their texts in hebrew
the christians on the other hand read their texts in various languages so your argument does hold for that religion.

All scholars will say: "the translated version of the Quran is Not the Quran"

And the Quran itself says more or less (as i am translating ) : "And We have revealed the Quran to you in Arabic"

And The Quran itself is poetry, pleasant to listen to- when you translate it to english- it doesnt sound as good as it is in Arabic and the richness of the meaning is lost as well... and we call any translated work: "an interpretation of the Quran or Tafseer "

 

[mr EaZy]

But the diversity of lifestyles is what makes a society interesting. Eg if everyone wore blue and listened to britney spears I'd certainly get bored pretty quickly, wouldn't you?

And as for condemning evil, should a murderer be judged on the many days he doesn't kill someone, or the one day that he doess?

1) Exactly!
2) A murderer should be judged according to the day he killed another being unlawfully with intent to unlawfully deprive another of life ; - as for the other days- we should acknowledge that that person had stayed clear of such evil acts - i.e: if the person "was a really good person" (this appears to be in line with public sentiment - believe it or not)

 

[SashatheMan]

i cant continue argueing with you veterandog, you provide absolutly no evidence to support all your claims, you just keep raving on how allah ment this and how he intends something to happen. Any person can simply answer a question with a lie, to make it look belivable, i dont see how what you say is any different to something made up.
when you were young and your parents told you eg santa is coming, and gifts were left under the tree in the morning, you strongly believed that he was real. However when you grew older you were smart enough to understand and think logicly and realise that its not physically possible for santa to exist. you questioned the possibility of him existing and knew it couldnt be real.
But you and other muslims ( christians , jews etc aswell) instead of making rational judgements for yourselves, you just follow word by word from a book, like a little child listening to parents. You dont even think rationally , how did those who wrote the book know of these details, how could they be certain of this. and if someone else questions the loopholes in the book, you just patch them up with irrational and non existent explanation , thats not in anyway differnt to a lie.

i am not gonna reply to posts of yours that dont hold a proper explanation and logical argument.

Moonlight totally thrashed anyone in the arguement when it came to the existance of god, and the only thing that came close to a response was, repeatative sentences worded differently , that all just say , well god made it this way.

 

[Capitalist Pig]

yes i would, that is why there are different religions. the prophet didnt try killing every non muslim he saw, but he did banish the jews after they tried conspiring against him. and that isnt what i mean. i mean that if one wanted to look at how to do something, they needn't look far.

besides, we may say this, but if we lived up in a world of blue clothing loving britney spears we wouldnt realy get bored. did you read nineteen eighty four by george orwell? i think that is where you got the blue overalls thingy, huh.

But different religions all try to create thought clones within themselves then we end up with 4 or 5 different kinds of people as opposed to thousands if everyone was agnostic/atheist. The aim of the Islamic faith is to convert everyone, is it not? Hence creating a boring homogenous society.
I have read 1984 but no ideas from the book even came close to crossing my mind in formulating that post.

1) Exactly!
2) A murderer should be judged according to the day he killed another being unlawfully with intent to unlawfully deprive another of life ; - as for the other days- we should acknowledge that that person had stayed clear of such evil acts - i.e: if the person "was a really good person" (this appears to be in line with public sentiment - believe it or not)

1. Why then does your religion:
a) try to make everyone within it conform to the same lifestyle (eg no dating before marriage, praying 5 times a day etc)
b) try to convert all non-believers to itself to create further homogeneity
and how does this create more diverse lifestyles?
2. So I should then judge the qu'ran most harshly on the times it has endorsed "slaying the infidels" and take a small account of the times it condemned death then?

 

[veterandoggy]

link me to the post. i guess it seems like moonlights words are a little too much for me, but i'm curious anyway.

look, i do think rationally, only that it is impossible to tell you ALL that i know, because the fine lines have disappeared. the only way i could show you that the quran was not written by anyone is by giving a small analysis as to who wrote it. these are the possible authors: muhammad, satan, bedouins, rabbis and monks, arabs, poets, an unknown person, and allah. i cant go straight, so ill move through elimination. muhammad couldnt have written it because he was illiterate and uneducated. satan couldnt have written it because he is condemned in it (i dont expect him to tell us to hate him and how to get rid of him if we feel his presence). the bedouins, rabbis, monks, and arabs couldnt have written it because of the scientific evidences given in the quran. remind me to get back to this. the poets couldnt have written it, also for scientific reasons, and also because the arabs used to hold poem competitions, and the best of the poets was asked to produce at least one verse similar to the quran, but he couldnt (he wasnt a muslim). the author cant be unknown because allah says he is the author. so it could only be allah. after all, who, in 610 AD knew that the mountains act like pegs which hold the crust as it spins? or that worker bees were female? or that the baby starts off as sexual discharge, and undergoes many stages before birth? you may argue against some of my points, but you cant deny that it would be nigh impossible for alot of these scientific statements are guesses, or anyone had the "technology" to discover these. btw, these are way too few scientific examples from the quran. they are just the first ones to enter my mind, and they are sufficient. if you still have the same stance you had before it is because of arrogance.

that has logic in it, so i would understand that you would hold your word...