Islam Discussion (2 Viewers)

[zahid]

"Islam is perfect in every aspect".

It really amazes me how people can be so blinded.

How can you possibly justify distributing your wealth amongst your children according to an old book?

Because we do not question Allah...unlike u ppl.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Because we do not question Allah...unlike u ppl.

That is exactly the problem.

You don't question it.

 

[zahid]

That is exactly the problem.

You don't question it.

Thats the difference between ISLAM and YOU

 

[SashatheMan]

first of all , dont call me stupidhead. it just shows your stupidity.

you say becuase a man supports a family he receives more inheritence, but the same is said when a childless man dies in 4:176, but women still get half even though theres no male who needs that inheritance becuase he has to support.

4:176 They ask thee for a legal decision. Say: Allah directs (thus) about those who leave no descendants or ascendants as heirs. If it is a man that dies, leaving a sister but no child, she shall have half the inheritance: If (such a deceased was) a woman, who left no child, Her brother takes her inheritance: If there are two sisters, they shall have two-thirds of the inheritance (between them): if there are brothers and sisters, (they share), the male having twice the share of the female. Thus doth Allah make clear to you (His law), lest ye err. And Allah hath knowledge of all things.

as i said above theres no reason why that deceased mans sister would have to have taken only half, becuase theres no other male that would need it instead to support his family.

Flying Spaghetti Monster is all knowing, All wise

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Thats the difference between ISLAM and YOU

No that's an insult to Islam. There are more rational Islamic followers out there -- ones who actually do question their beliefs.

It is utter foolishness to follow something blindly without ever questioning whether it is true or not.

 

[hipPo3]

if there is no way to keep a record then you need 2 witnesses to remember
and you need 2 women to one man if there is not 2 men because women are forgetful etc and they must remind eachother..
its not a big deal...really...i dont know about weddings dude?

thats not a sign of inferiority or anything...and in this day and age we dont need witnesses anymore..everything is on paper and somehow recorded

That is a sign of inferriority ..you're saying women are forgetful and men aren't ? you do realise you have knocked women right ?

yeah i already knew that and it makes PERFECT SENSE
... i will not deny it ..iim sorry reguardles what you say islam is perfect in every aspect
i am nto even goign to explain it...coz ur a stupidhead
actually yes i will
coz in islam the man gets more because he is the provider of the family
so when the women gets married her husband will have more money to provide for her so on and so forth..so the male gets more because he needs it more then the woman does and in teh end the WOMAN GETS IT ANYWAYS...geez
Allah is all knowing, All wise

If the man gets more, then women aren't treated equally.
Why does the man need it more then women ? .. why are you gloryfying males for no reason ?

How does the woman get it in the end ? .. just because thier married doesn't mean that the man will respect his wife. The man doesn't have to do squat. What about children ? .. wouldn't the money go in educating the children and so forth ?.. your arguement makes no sense.

Muslim hasn't adapted to society and continues to stick with it's previous culture which it has maintained for 1000's of years. Christianity on the other hand has adapted and become more commercial. This is why i'm asking why women still follow muslim teachings.. this post-moderinistic worlds asks for logical concepts within religion (thats why everyones questions religion these days). Since we live by equality .. why is that muslim women are the only poeple that don't see the concept of feminism ?

 

[SashatheMan]

and as hippo3 said. by you sayign that women are forgetful, it proves that the qoran sees women as untrustful and unforgetful which is basicaly impying that womens traits are inferior and hence they are inferior.
Flying Spaghetti Monster is all knowing, All wise

 

[physician]

As i do not have full knowledge on this issue, i direct u to a Muslim Scholar who does, I suggest u read these articles if u truly are questioning and not attacking!...

It'll take a few minutes of ur time: (if u sincerely want to understand the truth of the matter)

The Eminence Islam Attaches To Women

http://www.harunyahya.com/50eminence_women.php

MARYAM (Mary) : AN EXEMPLARY MUSLIM WOMAN

http://www.harunyahya.com/books/faith/maryam/muslimwoman05.php

How Do The Unwise Interpret The Qur'an?

http://www.harunyahya.com/unwise01.php

 

[zahid]

No that's an insult to Islam. There are more rational Islamic followers out there -- ones who actually do question their beliefs.

It is utter foolishness to follow something blindly without ever questioning whether it is true or not.

No true muslim questions the islamic faith as revealed by our Prophet Muhammed.

rational islamic followers are the ones that follow ever command of Allah without questioning.

 

[SashatheMan]

i read it, and this is what i have to say about it.

it provides many verses stating that men and women are equal , however none of the verses state equality in reference to social, and family values. every verse that states the equality between the sexes refers to the eqaul acknowledgement from allah if men and women praise him.

Also that article doesnt mention any of the verses that have been brought up on the thread. He is cutting and pasting bits from the book to hide the fact that it obviously doesnt see women equal on a social level, rather only shows equality in eyes of allah if men and women prey.

 

[chookyn]

No true muslim questions the islamic faith as revealed by our Prophet Muhammed.

rational islamic followers are the ones that follow ever command of Allah without questioning.

yeah, but there can be a huge difference between doing what Allah is actually commanding a muslim to do vs. what a muslim wants Allah to command them to do.

so irrational people think and analyse, and the rational don't...??
is that what you're saying?

 

[physician]

i read it, and this is what i have to say about it.

it provides many verses stating that men and women are equal , however none of the verses state equality in reference to social, and family values. every verse that states the equality between the sexes refers to the eqaul acknowledgement from allah if men and women praise him.

Also that article doesnt mention any of the verses that have been brought up on the thread. He is cutting and pasting bits from the book to hide the fact that it obviously doesnt see women equal on a social level, rather only shows equality in eyes of allah if men and women prey.

the second article does , it also deals with issues regarding divorce! (bottom half of the article)...

 

[SashatheMan]

i will read the seocnd article later, i gotta go study. but i aint bothering to read the third. its way too big. i read first two pages and it just sais that anyone who doesnt believe is quran is wrong cuase quran sais so.

 

[physician]

.. why is that muslim women are the only poeple that don't see the concept of feminism ?

because those who have been raised according to the techings of the Quran and the doings of the prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) don't need the "concept of feminism" Islam has abolished any form of inequality against women... it really depends on what u define equality to be!...

and the "concept of feminism" is present amongst Muslim women who do not live in an environment where the teachings of the Prphet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and those of the Quarn, shape that particular enviornment...

Muslim femenists are women who are trying to bring back the teachings of the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) into their lives and the lives of ppl in this modern society... My deputy Principle (who is muslim) is a femenist!

 

[SashatheMan]

i could be like soha and say oh no , all your links just brainwash you to believe crap but i wont

 

[MoonlightSonata]

No true muslim questions the islamic faith as revealed by our Prophet Muhammed.

rational islamic followers are the ones that follow ever command of Allah without questioning.

No, rational followers of any religion by definition use reason.

Failing to ever question the belief is not using reason.

rea·soned, rea·son·ing, rea·sons
v. intr.

1. To use the faculty of reason; think logically.

rational
adj.

1. Consistent with or based on or using reason; "rational behavior"; "a process of rational inference"; "rational thought".

It really is extremely silly for a religion to dictate that you should never question the religion. Imagine if I took Alice in Wonderland as gospel simply because it told me never to question it.

 

[zahid]

No, rational followers of any religion by definition use reason.

Failing to ever question the belief is not using reason.
It really is extremely silly for a religion to dictate that you should never question the religion. Imagine if I took Alice in Wonderland as gospel simply because it told me never to question it.

Look mate you definition of reason is relative to your understanding. Dont attempt to understand our religion, when its very clear you know nothing about it. Islam does not accept any kind of seculerism. The Quaran is Gods word and revlation to humankind, and that's reason enough for us to accept Islam as a faith. I do not expect any Atheist to undersand the beauty of this faith...and if you did, then you would not be asking these questions and making these assumptions about so-called "rational" muslims.

Edit: Indeed it is very logical, this religion of Islam. All revelations in the quaran are consistent with our world today.

 

[callisto]

i only found out the other day that moonlightsonata was a guy, how weird is that lol

 

[MoonlightSonata]

I say the following with respect, but I do believe my comments are called for.

Look mate you definition of reason is relative to your understanding.

No, my definition of reason is justifying beliefs with logic and evidence. This is objective. 2+2 will always equal 4. Reason includes logic and similar forms of reasoning such as deductive, inductive, modal, etc. Moreover your definition of reason seems to be by definition lack of reason, since you advocate never questioning a belief.

Dont attempt to understand our religion, when its very clear you know nothing about it. Islam does not accept any kind of seculerism.

Very well, I was mistaken then, I apologise. Islam is a lot worse than I thought.

The Quaran is Gods word and revlation to humankind, and that's reason enough for us to accept Islam as a faith.

You have absolutely no proof of that whatsoever.

I do not expect any Atheist to undersand the beauty of this faith...and if you did, then you would not be asking these questions and making these assumptions about so-called "rational" muslims.

Your whole argument consists of "you wouldn't understand." Not very convincing. With respect it just tends to suggest to me that you can't actually come up with a logical response.

Edit: Indeed it is very logical, this religion of Islam. All revelations in the quaran are consistent with our world today.

This is the closest thing you've come to an argument, so I do appreciate this part. Unfortunately it is flawed:

Response:
1. There are several mundane ways in which a prediction of the future can be fulfilled:

(a) Retrodiction. The "prophecy" can be written or modified after the events fulfilling it have already occurred.

(b) Vagueness. The prophecy can be worded in such a way that people can interpret any outcome as a fulfillment. Nostradomus's prophecies are all of this type. Vagueness works particularly well when people are religiously motivated to believe the prophecies.

(c) Inevitability. The prophecy can predict something that is almost sure to happen, such as the collapse of a city. Since nothing lasts forever, the city is sure to fall someday. If it has not, it can be said that according to prophecy, it will.

(d) Denial. One can claim that the fulfilling events occurred even if they have not. Or, more commonly, one can forget that the prophecy was ever made.

(e) Self-fulfillment. A person can act deliberately to satisfy a known prophecy.

There are no prophecies in religious texts that cannot easily fit into one or more of those categories.

2. In biblical times, prophecies were not simply predictions. They were warnings of what could or would happen if things did not change. They were meant to influence people's behavior. If the people heeded the prophecy, the events would not come to pass. A fulfilled prophecy was a failed prophecy, because it meant people did not heed the warning.

3. Other religions claim many fulfilled prophecies, too.

 

[zahid]

I say the following with respect, but I do believe my comments are called for.
No, my definition of reason is justifying beliefs with logic and evidence. This is objective. 2+2 will always equal 4. Reason includes logic and similar forms of reasoning such as deductive, inductive, modal, etc. Moreover your definition of reason seems to be by definition lack of reason, since you advocate never questioning a belief.
Very well, I was mistaken then, I apologise. Islam is a lot worse than I thought.
You have absolutely no proof of that whatsoever.
Your whole argument consists of "you wouldn't understand." Not very convincing. With respect it just tends to suggest to me that you can't actually come up with a logical response.
This is the closest thing you've come to an argument, so I do appreciate this part. Unfortunately it is flawed:

OK so...you are so convinced of your righteousness , they why the need to question Islam?

Listen Moonlight...I believe I am absolutely right in choosing my faith...and you have your personal opinions, if I am wrong. Then it seems probable that you are just as wrong.