Israel attacks Lebanon (3 Viewers)
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and you too im sorry to say have fallen into the medias trap....60 minutes is notorius for its bias view of israel...with an example of the late mr carlton doing his all time greatest show in israel...the jenin 'massacre' he thought he had struck gold....what a shamtempco said:
They showed building after building destroyed.jenzipoo said:
These buildings were civilian homes, and now they're reduced to rubble.
If anyone has fallen into a trap then its you, you seem to think Israel are angels and whatever damage they do its for the "greater good"
and why not post a petition to end the war, i think that will be more helpful.
darek_arsenal
Member
%$#@ HEZBOLLAH......GO ISRAEL....&%$# HEZBOLLAH HARD OVER.....AND MAYBE WHILE YOUR AT IT GO FOR IRAN AND SYRIA [sorry Salloum and Sam if your reading this] BUT YOU KNOW ITS TRUE
what gets me is why did hezbollah start this part of a war that's been going for centuries. It appears obvious they have no chance against the might of american-weapon-wielding israelis unless they have some serious backing (i even heard russia was linked with them, but that sounds more like a WWIII conspiracy).
The reason that seems most likely is they are doing it as a distraction, so they can up their nuclear weapons (or the like) in Iran without anyone looking.
The reason that seems most likely is they are doing it as a distraction, so they can up their nuclear weapons (or the like) in Iran without anyone looking.
sam04u
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sasha0101 said:
Lol, that is so illogical. How is it moral to believe that the lives of 2 Israeli 'soldiers' is worth more then the lives of hundreds of innocent civilians? Infact that is immoral, what is the moral thinking behind the thought? Are you trying to Justify these attacks on the number held hostage? Israel has over 10,000 prisoners which went through a faulty judicial system.
Once Israel completely/progressively demolishes Lebanon (economically and structurally) will Israel come into Lebanon and help rebuild the country? No. Hezbollah will rebuild Lebanon once the Israeli attacks have stopped. If you read the reports people listening to the Israeli message and fleeing from South Lebanon had their cars bombed and were attacked by Israeli jet fighters.
It will be proven that the Israelis are using excessive, unjustified force. It's already been declared that they have broken U.N Humanitarian Conventions.
Anyone who has been to Lebanon can see the damage which the Israelis are doing. Recently, I was asking an Israeli soldier how he justified the bombing of the Internation Airport of Beirut and I must admit that is the only bombing he Justified. (He claimed that hezbollah were planning to fill a commercial plane with Ketusha Rockets and Explosives and fly them into an Israeli capital), this should be confidential information But i feel like sharing it.
However, he also said that the militants were following guide lines and many strikes were very uncoordinated, random following very think guide-lines. He admitted that they were using excessive force and that they were intentionally 'aggravating' a Lebanese response so that they could 'make an example out of Lebanon' and 'Kill anyone who made a stand against Israel'.
I've spoken with people in Hezbollah and they say they're intentionally luring the Israeli armies on goose chases by firing rockets in remote 'unpopulated' locations and then firing other rockets from other locations as to not 'reveal' their locations. (some are running on foot with the rocket launchers on their back firing them while running.)
Apparently the Israeli army has done almost no damage to Hezbollah and are mainly destroying infrastructure and killing innocent civilians (to make an example out of Hezbollah).
I'm not just blurting out my opinion which is based on media reports, So I'm not going to be biased or influenced. Immediate Cease Fires/Prisoner Negotiations is the best way to end this ordeal.
I dont like the idea of rewarding Hezbollah (or Hamas) with prisoners after they kidnap Israeli soldiers. Its what Israel has done in the past and i think its a stupid policy, its a short-term ceasefire which leads to future instability. It only encourages terrorist/militant groups to kidnap more Israeli soldiers.
What Israel should do is say to these groups, if you dont attack us for a period of time, we'll give you some of your people back.
What Israel should do is say to these groups, if you dont attack us for a period of time, we'll give you some of your people back.
darek_arsenal
Member
They are not rushing special weapons into Israel for IDF, this deal was struck many months before this conflict started
The deal was struck 2 years ago, but the purchase wasnt actually made because of the Israel budget. That was for bunker buster bombs.darek_arsenal said:
There are now reprts that satellite and laser guided bombs are being delivered to Israel by the U.S
mr EaZy
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i was trying to find my last post... but its losts somewhere back... not gonna bother (ive been away for 2 days lol)
anyways... recent developments:
recently, Israel bombed 2 tv stations owned by anti-hizbullah parties- the reasons ABC america gave from the anchor of one of the stations was:
"israel doesnt want the world to know whats going on in lebanon"
ABC america gets a lot of its footage from these lebanese channels- i can understand why lots of pro-israelis felt prejudiced....
but the truth is that the world does need to know these things are happening
there was a jewish meeting today
they prayed for peace
Amen
so there are 3 stages to repentance:
1) recognise the error
2) regret the error
3) resolve never to do the error again
3 rs
But what ive said is useless because pro-israelis dont think that israel is doing anything wrong (they dont recognise the error)
lets turn to history:
Japan bombs pearl harbour; japan is in control of SE ASIA
Does that justify war? perhaps
Does it justify a NUKE ? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
two nukes then?
GErmany takes on several countries, attempts to wipe out a few races:
Bombing of dresden & BErlin - justified? NO!
Rape of millions of Germans by russians - justified? HELL NO!
The thing is that at the time these things happened - no one really protested about it at the time- some countries protest hiroshima 60 years on- but no one did it at the time- they were tooooooo busy celebrating the end of the war
What has resulted is that - all of a sudden its alright to wage war without worrying about civilians
"let the military do their job and the central government and the press do theirs (PR campaign) "
What has been going on in lebanon:
"flattening entire towns", JUSTIFIED? NO!
we have had the testimonies of people on the ground- even formerly israeli supporters , and also allies saying that they have gone too far
we have seen ANti hizbullah interests bombed, cars in hospital compounds bombed, beer factories bombed -
it is possible to react and yet be wrong!
The truth is that israel is wrong in its response. the question is - will we accept it or not?
if the israeli government would accept it, they can at least try to minimize it!
it seems that they're slowly backing down, allowing peace keepers etc to move in later on, allowing aid to move in, working with governments to get their people out
initially they denied all these things and bombed a syrian medical truck!
initially the press sided with israel- just source the sunday papers a few weeks back- the weekend after hizbullah first struck....
but as the response was proven to be disproportionate- our media with its need to get the emotions of its readers then took a 180 degree spin and well.... they spilled the beans on what was going on--- it was too risky not to,
one reporter questioned whether israel has alterior motives here.... in a few years time... the truth will come out....
my theory is: land prices will drop as people sell everything, as entire families have been wiped out... some of the land will belong to no one- it remains to be seen who will take possession of these lands in the future...
lastly, someone posted the jerusalem post quoting some unknown source that 40% of hizbullah has been destroyed and that it will be completely destroyed within a week....
i wouldnt pay much attention to that now
anyways... recent developments:
recently, Israel bombed 2 tv stations owned by anti-hizbullah parties- the reasons ABC america gave from the anchor of one of the stations was:
"israel doesnt want the world to know whats going on in lebanon"
ABC america gets a lot of its footage from these lebanese channels- i can understand why lots of pro-israelis felt prejudiced....
but the truth is that the world does need to know these things are happening
there was a jewish meeting today
they prayed for peace
Amen
so there are 3 stages to repentance:
1) recognise the error
2) regret the error
3) resolve never to do the error again
3 rs
But what ive said is useless because pro-israelis dont think that israel is doing anything wrong (they dont recognise the error)
lets turn to history:
Japan bombs pearl harbour; japan is in control of SE ASIA
Does that justify war? perhaps
Does it justify a NUKE ? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
two nukes then?
GErmany takes on several countries, attempts to wipe out a few races:
Bombing of dresden & BErlin - justified? NO!
Rape of millions of Germans by russians - justified? HELL NO!
The thing is that at the time these things happened - no one really protested about it at the time- some countries protest hiroshima 60 years on- but no one did it at the time- they were tooooooo busy celebrating the end of the war
What has resulted is that - all of a sudden its alright to wage war without worrying about civilians
"let the military do their job and the central government and the press do theirs (PR campaign) "
What has been going on in lebanon:
"flattening entire towns", JUSTIFIED? NO!
we have had the testimonies of people on the ground- even formerly israeli supporters , and also allies saying that they have gone too far
we have seen ANti hizbullah interests bombed, cars in hospital compounds bombed, beer factories bombed -
it is possible to react and yet be wrong!
The truth is that israel is wrong in its response. the question is - will we accept it or not?
if the israeli government would accept it, they can at least try to minimize it!
it seems that they're slowly backing down, allowing peace keepers etc to move in later on, allowing aid to move in, working with governments to get their people out
initially they denied all these things and bombed a syrian medical truck!
initially the press sided with israel- just source the sunday papers a few weeks back- the weekend after hizbullah first struck....
but as the response was proven to be disproportionate- our media with its need to get the emotions of its readers then took a 180 degree spin and well.... they spilled the beans on what was going on--- it was too risky not to,
one reporter questioned whether israel has alterior motives here.... in a few years time... the truth will come out....
my theory is: land prices will drop as people sell everything, as entire families have been wiped out... some of the land will belong to no one- it remains to be seen who will take possession of these lands in the future...
lastly, someone posted the jerusalem post quoting some unknown source that 40% of hizbullah has been destroyed and that it will be completely destroyed within a week....
i wouldnt pay much attention to that now
I agree. Its better than doing a prisoner exchange now.Jordan.J said:
Hopefully in the future Israeli soldiers wont be kidnapped and Israel will recognise it has a duty to release prisoners if there is relative calm.
But that will only be half the soloution, theres still the issue of Israel occupying the Shebaa farms, that needs to be resolved.ZabZu said:
But if they withdraw, Israel will demand Hezbollah to disarm. Im not sure if thats practical right away, the closest soloution will most likely be for them to integrate into the Lebanese army and be under control by the Lebanese government.
darek_arsenal
Member
mr EaZy said:
Lets start my suggesting that Israel is not in the error with the recent conflict, people must understand that its Hezbollah's error, the Lebanese government's error, and to a lesser extent, the Syrian and Iranian government's error.
With all the historical events you suggested as not justifiable, why not mention the historical events that lead up to it. Now with the attack on Pearl Habour and the treatment of Australian soldiers and Chinese civilians by the Japanese did ofcourse justify the dropping of two atomic bombs.
The Bombing of Dresden. Ofcourse it was justified. You must understand that the death of about 50,000 people during the bombing of Dresden is justifiable seeing that it was the Germans that caused almost 1000X that number to have perished during World War Two.
How about the manner in which the Germans treated the Jews, the Poles, and especially the Russians. Rape is not justifiable, but please dont engage in a moral equivilance debate and start suggesting that the muder of millions is as equal as the rape of thousands.
StGeorgeDragons
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supporters of israel seem to think just because Israel may not have started this, and they were provoked, they have the right to do whatever they like. the error in the conflict is that israel has killed almost 400 innocent lebanese people for no reason, they havnt touched hizbolah, and if you think thats right, theres something wrong with you too.darek_arsenal said:
This was no act of self defence, the fact that they bombed a lebanese army base proves that.
darek_arsenal
Member
Oh okay....and the Israeli soldiers? So Hezbollah is not at an error with holding Israeli captives? And Israel is not occupying Lebanese land? The only land Israel is occupying is the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights [and might I add that they deservably justifiably should].Jordan.J said:
darek_arsenal
Member
Ofcourse i dont agree with the killing of innocent civilians, but what did the Arab armies do to Israel during the 1948, 1967, 1978 wars? They not only invaded a sovereign country but they also caused 2,400 Israeli civilan casualties in the 1948 conflict. Were'nt those Jews innocent? They had just escaped the death camps of Aushwitz, and now had had to fear for their lives from Arabs.codereder said: