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Japanese Whalers (2 Viewers)

Rafy

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iamsickofyear12 said:
Everyone keeps saying how this is illegal but there is a whaling commission and it has said it is ok and the Australian government is letting it happen so obviously it's not really illegal.

Well yes, technically it isnt illegal. The Japanese are using provisions of the treaty that allow whaling for scientific purposes to avoid the ban. However they are killing 1000 whales a season, and the meat ends up been sold in markets to Japanese consumers. Seems hardly scientific too me. Problem is that Japan could just leave the IWC at any time, and it will be no longer bound to its resolutions. It could do whatever it wanted within international waters.
 

withoutaface

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iamsickofyear12 said:
Everyone keeps saying how this is illegal but there is a whaling commission and it has said it is ok and the Australian government is letting it happen so obviously it's not really illegal.
International bodies tend to lack the teeth to back up their resolutions.
 

forceblade

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Serius said:
haha yeah i can just imagine it, my uncle would go fucking apeshit if jap army planes were allowed to use australian airbases to stage an attack against Australian citizens.... i normally dont promote racism, but i can see his point [ being in a war and seeing your mates die to japanese soldier can kinda alter your view on a particular race]

RSL clubs would not only march on Canberra, they would wage war against it. And i would support em
lol its world war 2 again! go the verterns kick thier ass
 

Jiga

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This is a very interesting link about the whole thing from the IWC:

http://www.iwcoffice.org/conservation/permits.htm

Site with some info bout Southern Sancutary:

http://www.asoc.org/old%20meetings/meetings_IWC.htm

Interesting article by BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4118990.stm

The 11 Articles agreed upon in Whaling convention (article 8 is the loophole):

http://www.iwcoffice.org/commission/convention.htm#protocol

What I find very intersting is the fact that as a result of the lopphole Japan has been able to issue itself a scientific permit... when as you will see they are not adhering to the guidelines of such research... so isnt it in any way possible to prevent them from continuing given this? These 'guidelines' which are used by the The Scientific Committee’s review, focus on the following issues in relation to scientific research on whales, Japan fails to meet at least 3 of these points!

1.whether the permit adequately specifies its aims, methodology and the samples to be taken;

2.whether the research is essential for rational management, the work of the Scientific Committee or other critically important research needs;

3.whether the methodology and sample size are likely to provide reliable answers to the questions being asked;(Their sample size has now doubled for the coming years to like 800 or something.....why?)

4.whether the questions can be answered using non-lethal research methods;<-- Id really like to know what questions are trying to be answered that reqire a sample size of 800

5.whether the catches will have an adverse effect on the stock;(This one is kinda obvious, taking endangered species of whales is ridiculous)

6.whether there is the potential for scientists from other nations to join the research programme.(Australia has a ship out their now doing non-lethal research, why couldnt they combine and go about their 'research' another way?)

ALSO of interesting is that the reasons for lethal methods of research are:

1.the age of an animal (obtained from earplugs)
2.the reproductive status and history of females (obtained from ovaries).

So they need to kill 800 whales now, some of which are endangered...... to determine their age (their dead now instead of growing on) or their reporductive status (well that whale wont be able to reporduce anymore)?

They also provide the question "The question then becomes one of whether the answers one obtains using such data are ‘essential’, ‘reliable enough’ or ‘critical’?" is asked...... how can it be that essential that they further endanger some whales and massacre up to 800?

Lastly, their is info about a 'scientific permit' Japan has in the antarctic, and much like they are doing in our waters now, they are constantly increasing their quotas.... I would really like to know the reasoning behind this? From starting their 'research' which quotas of 100 common minke whales, 50 Bryde’s whales and 10 sperm whales they increased to 220 common minke whales, 50 Bryde's whales, 100 sei and 10 sperm whales. Does minke whale meat have a better market value or something?

All in all, this shows how the scientific research thing is total bullshyte, they fail in numerous areas to achieve the criteria set out by the IWC....... so what they are doing is nothing more than illegal. I also wander what is the point of even having the IWC at all if they are 100% powerless to stop such illegal acts!

In any case, the things the whaling convention agreed upon should be amended in order to prevent the whole thing from being exploited in the future (if any whales are left!), this means fucking off or altering article 8 of the convention in particular which allows any member to issue to itself a Special Permit to kill whales for the purposes of scientific research.... like WTF were they thinking with that article anyway I dont know.... blind freddy can tell you countries like Japan will exploit it!!! I dont understand as well why they would set out that a nation could make its own permit and THEN they can go into another countries waters... I can understand maybe them doing their own permit and wahling in international waters but why didnt they specifically set out that if they had to whale in another country they had to also get permission or something from that nation! Their needs to be change in the regulations quite simply, this loophole is ridiculous...... and the thing was made in like 1946 so its no wander their are floors in it....UPDATE the regulations I say!
 
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buzzcut89

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When I was in Japan I got offered whale meat...twice in a month.

So much for "scientific research"..
 

Jiga

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So much for "scientific research"..
Although it is obvious they the 'scientific research' claim is false or at least mainly an excuse, the fact that they eat the meat doesnt prove it, they are actually allowed to, and thats why they chose article 8 as the loophole, because they can issue themselves a permit and then sell the meat (which is their primary goal in this case even though its only meant to be an additional benefit):

" Any whales taken under these special permits shall so far as practicable be processed and the proceeds shall be dealt with in accordance with directions issued by the Government by which the permit was granted. "

I think it is also wise to remember that they are doing SOME research, they cant just kill all these whales and not do any research..... the loophole still requires some research be done. However, by not getting a permit from the IWC they are avoiding having to deal with questions like whether the data and answered divulged from it are essential or critical......and obviously in this case you would think especially with the endagered species of whale the answer would be no. This is even more so when you consider that the southern ocean is regarded as a sanctuary for whales as it holds 3/4 of earths population and is the main feeding ground for them.

Like I said previously, I think that they have to scrap the whaling convention crap because it is outdated, obviously in 1946 they were small minded agreeing on things that would allow a rogue country to exploit it so easily! (Ironically it was made just after Japan was defeated in WW2, so Japan tried to fuck us all up back then, and now they are at it again :rolleyes:). And I think somehow an organisation must be created that actually polices this crap, because its becoming a serious issue when you have countries like Norway and Japan killing animals which are endangered and then doing so in a primitive and inhumane fasion.

A side note..... why are we protecting their men in Iraq, risking our soldiers lives and listening to Japan when they request we stay when they laugh in our and the worlds face. Im not saying we let their men be killed.... that would be stooping to their low, but Australia (ie John the pussy Howard) needs to grow some balls.

I think this summarises the situation well....

Greenpeace are arrogant stupid dicks. And John Howard is a pussy. And Japan is an asshole. Pussies don’t like dicks because pussies get fucked by dicks, but dicks also fuck assholes. Assholes who just wanna shit on everything. Pussies may think that they can deal with assholes their way, but the only thing that can fuck an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is that sometimes they fuck too much, or fuck when it isn’t appropriate, and it takes a pussy to show ‘em that. But sometimes pussies get so full of shit that they become assholes themselves. Because pussies are only an inch and a half away from assholes. I don’t know much in this crazy crazy world. But I do know that if you don’t let Greenpeace fuck this asshole, we’re gonna have our dicks and our pussies all covered in shit.

(And this actually relates to the situation of how Australia & Co think they can resolve this amicably with Japan, which wont happen. Therefore greenpeace has to act... but sometimes they go alittle overboard as we have seen with the ramming etc)
 
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forceblade

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Omg did anyone watch Ten news? they showed a footage of a whale that took an hour to die, the poor creture had its bottom half of body shredded by genade it took 7 shots to kill it...omg i cant sleep that night.

i am never eating sushi or buying japan products ever again.
 

ediisjoz

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I saw them killing that one on the news the other night and it was so sad. i felt so bad, why do it its just barbaric. :(:( i hate whalers
 

forceblade

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well this is a cruel world where ppl only care for money making, and not about the surffering of other animals, i been to china, and bali for holiday and those people treat animals like ants. I saw a guy who grabed a chicken but one foot and when the chicken cried in pain he slaped it hard on the head.

gosh going to asain countries is so depressing...
 

M.I.A-187

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forceblade said:
it said in the telegraph that the whalers are thinking of calling in japan aircrafts to protect the whalers, using Australia as a air base for them.


that is fucking bullshit...first illegally hunting whales in our waters then using our land as airbase...what they gona do? fire a missle at green peace?

R=O=F=L This is the biggest bullshit made by a government EVER. Anyway that is just crazy...i mean whales are protected in Australia yet they are allowed to be killed in Australian water by japanese. This is like going into someone house and taking their jewels.
 
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Um... it's not even Australian territory...

Not that it makes it okay (i don't approve), but i think it makes more sense to boycott Australian Bluefin tuna, which is an endangered species being hunted to death by Aussies while the Govt sits around twiddling their thumbs, than to get all self-righteous against Japanese whalers who are killing animals within international law, to a (non-endangered) species at a ecologically sustainable rate.

I don't know what else to say. I don't support the killing of whales/fish, but i can't part with my sashimi.
 

felixcthecat

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my sharona said:
I don't know what else to say. I don't support the killing of whales/fish, but i can't part with my sashimi.

lolz, hav u tried whale meat before tho? =P

mhmm, generally i think the media doesn't report enough of the whole case to take a certain side on this.. (or is it me not reading enough?? ><") They say that japanese do research on those whales, and yes whale meat is in the japanese market.. and yes they eat whale meat..
but what makes it that jp wants the whale meat hence use an old policy loophole to catch more whales, y can't it be that they're doing more research and the meat isn't part of it so they sell it out to subsidise the cost and damage incurred during catching whales? i agree that endangered species should be preserved and would be against any policy that may endanger a species,but clearly there isn't enough evidence.. (not provided here in BOS atleast), to say that the japanese are actually doing something completely negative and is 'faking research' to have the whale meat...
 

danieljarvis

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hmm i asked the question "what are they researching" earlier.. and so far i have been given the answer that :

ALSO of interesting is that the reasons for lethal methods of research are:

1.the age of an animal (obtained from earplugs)
2.the reproductive status and history of females (obtained from ovaries).

so, they are so far killing 800 or so whales a year to find out how old they are and if they are breeding.... irony? anybody seeing something RIDICULOUSLY FUCKING STUPID with that?

somebody also mentioned the point of the southern blue-fin tuna??

http://www.ccsbt.org/docs/management.html

Notice who is killing the most, even considering whose waters they live in?


Btw.. http://www.sydneyfishfinder.com.au/pittwater.html ... and there goes Pittwater. :(:( fucking pro fisherman

“Typical isn’t it, the fish numbers just begin to recover and then in a night or two its destroyed.”
I really hope we don't see our whale population (dont call them fucking stock) get raped again. Not saying that it is where it should be right now.
 

dilroy

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Australia 4 - Japan 1

www.theage.com.au/news/W...49964774739.html

Japan suffered a resounding defeat on Friday at the International Whaling Commission, calming fears among conservationists that it might finally win enough support in the world body to start attacking a ban on whaling.

Sucked in to Japan I say, pretty soon they will resort to eating humans if they're not careful. I mean they're just eating it for the sake of eating it, there is a massive stockpile and a lot of Japanese people don't want to eat it, yet the Japanese government wants to promote it even furthur by killing more and more.

In order to promote its popularity they've added whale burgers news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia...ific/4122800.stm to the menu... if the nation doesn't want to eat it then don't try and waste your time promoting it you blundering fools!

What are your thoughts on this topic?
 

mr_brightside

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Re: Australia 4 - Japan 1

nah. If you put on a white coat it makes it okay to kill whales.
 

Iron

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Re: Australia 4 - Japan 1

It's a national pride issue. Tied with centuries of culture and tradition. The Japs tend to go a bit funny when something messes with that.
I dont think that they've accepted defeat in the last war. The havent even accepted defeat in the economic wars - they still think they run the world with the U.S.
Having to put up with the shit-pot antics of China/Korea would make anyone edgy. They probably feel that the international community owes them a species or two. And hey, I dont eat vegimite by the jar, but you know, id fight Japan/Asia for the right to (assuming that it's made from a rare and revolting animal)
It's power - if Japan cannot kill some whale on its own terms, then they are a weak and feeble state which should commit hari-kiri post haste!- not the winners they'd like to think they are

side note: do you know how many Australian communities developed via whaling? So so many. Visit the victorian coast sometime
 

sunjet

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Re: Australia 4 - Japan 1

Will be sure to check it out, thnx!
 

turtleface

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Yes the national pride explanation seems like one of the few reasonable explanations.

In Japan, the government is promoting the consumption of whale meat because not enough people want to eat it to meet supply.

either that or theres something in those whales someone wants
 

Kwayera

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From today's SMH Letters section: (http://www.smh.com.au/letters/?page=4)

Australia opposes the Japanese killing of whales ("Humpbacks face a slow death by explosives", June 19). Although Australia appreciates the beauty of whales through whale watching, for Japanese whales are a form of food. Why can't we accept that?
In our country we kill many animals, including cows. These animals are revered in India. How would we react if India told us not to eat beef anymore?

Australia protests about the humane killing of whales, and rightly so. However, are our hands clean? Do any of the animals we eat suffer? Australia is a country that makes sales of live sheep. How humane is the transport and ultimate slaughter of these animals?

If there are legitimate points of argument, such as the need to kill humanely and avoid killing endangered species, please air them. But please clean up our own backyard before the glaring hypocrisy makes a mockery of our arguments.

Joseph Lee, Belfield

My letter in reply. Maybe it'll get published tomorrow, maybe it's a bit long. Regardless;

I am frankly astounded, Mr. Lee, that you have so easily fallen prey to the somewhat wily arguments of the Japanese 'justifying' their annual whale catch. What you - and they - apparently don't understand is that unlike India's cattle and Australia's sheep, whales are an ultimately unsustainable resource. We domesticated cattle and sheep because they yielded a high return of meat and bred easily, quickly, and in large numbers. We continue to kill and eat them today because of this; ungulates, such as cattle, are fairly effortlessly sustainable.
Whales, simply, are not. They are massive, largely solitary, long lived, and very slow to mature. They have a similarly poor breeding rate. Baleen females, depending on the species, generally reproduce once every three to five years, and only 80% of calves typically survive to maturity. This means that unlike cattle and sheep, whale populations do not reproduce sufficiently to absorb the loss of thousands of individuals during a return to commercial whaling. This is why they became endangered in the first place.

Killing of whales is inhumane. Unlike the killing of sheep and cattle, which is regulated in Australian abattoirs to minimise suffering, there is no truly humane way to kill whales; unlike cows and sheep, we are not depriving a species the opportunity to recover by removing breeding-age adults (of which is has been observed that it can take up to 20 years for a female whale to replace itself with one mature female offspring).

So before you protest so sharply that we should not criticise another culture's unnecessary culinary habits until we 'clean up our own', please understand your own hypocrisy of ignorance that mocks both you and the Japanese.
 

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