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Muhammad Cartoon Controversy (5 Viewers)

davin

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

also to point out theo van gogh was murdered because of what he'd said regarding islam.

the UN shouldn't be involved at all...the idea of freedom of speech isnt to protect the speech you like, its to protect the speech you DON'T like.

Not if its going to bring offence to someone. If i was to take on board that sort of thinking - i'll probably start walking around my neighbourhood and just start bad mouthing people and making fun of what they believe in. Then if they get upset ill tell them its freedom of speech!
i'd back it up for sake of free speech.
if someone expresses an opinion, they shouldn't have to then fear for their lives. boycotts, ok, because you don't have to support them economically. same deal if they get fired from a job. But to force an apology, or claim that the UN should somehow regulate speech is insane.

And there is a big difference from an opinion expressed in a cartoon to holocaust denial
 

firehose

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

Cartoons of Prophet Met With Outrage

Depictions of Muhammad in Scandinavian Papers Provoke Anger, Protest Across Muslim World


By John Ward Anderson
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, January 31, 2006; Page A12



PARIS, Jan. 30 -- Cartoons in Danish and Norwegian newspapers depicting the prophet Muhammad in unflattering poses, including one in which he is portrayed as an apparent terrorist with a bomb in his turban, have triggered outrage among Muslims across the Middle East, sparking protests, economic boycotts and warnings of possible retaliation against the people, companies and countries involved.

The cartoons were published in September in a conservative, mass-circulation Danish daily, Jyllands-Posten, and were reprinted three weeks ago in Magazinet, a small evangelical Christian newspaper in Norway. But the reaction has been widespread, and fallout over the images reached new levels Monday, with the European Union backing Denmark in the dispute and warning that a boycott of Danish products -- already being felt by some companies -- would violate World Trade Organization rules.

Saudi Arabia has recalled its ambassador from Denmark and Libya has closed its embassy in Copenhagen, the Danish capital. Kuwait called the cartoons "despicable racism." Iran's foreign minister termed them "ridiculous and revolting."

The cartoons included one of the prophet as a crazed, knife-wielding Bedouin and another of him at the gates of heaven telling suicide bombers: "Stop. Stop. We have run out of virgins!" -- a reference to the belief of some Muslim extremists that male suicide bombers are rewarded in heaven with 72 virgins.

Islamic critics charged that the cartoons were a deliberate provocation and insult to their religion designed to incite hatred and polarize people of different faiths. Defenders of the newspapers and artists said the 12 published cartoons simply were intended to highlight Islam's intolerance.

The controversy has pitted two newspapers championing what they say is the cause of free speech against Islam's prohibition of any artistic depiction of the prophet Muhammad, which is considered blasphemous, no matter how benign. The clash is being fueled by a wave of anti-immigrant sentiment in staunchly secular Denmark, where many express frustration that the country's 200,000 Muslim immigrants are resisting assimilation into Danish society.

"There's widespread skepticism toward immigration and integration efforts" because of a popular belief that "immigrants are here to take advantage of the Danish system," said Ulf Hedetoft, a political scientist at Aalborg University and director of Denmark's Academy for Migration Studies.
"People are inclined to see Islam and political extremism as two sides of the same coin," he said.

In a statement, the 57-nation Organization of the Islamic Conference has condemned "the printing of blasphemous and insulting caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed," saying it "falls into the trap set up by fundamentalists and fosters acts of revenge." Protesters across the Muslim world have burned Norwegian and Danish flags and issued sharp denunciations.
The controversy began in September, after an author in Denmark complained that he could not find an artist willing, under his own name, to illustrate a book about the prophet's life.

In response, Jyllands-Posten, the conservative daily, ran 12 cartoons by various staff artists depicting Muhammad. The paper explained that the project was meant to gauge the public's response.

In the Islamic world, it was swift and furious, but in Denmark, the majority backed the paper's right to print the cartoons. A recent poll showed that 62 percent of those surveyed said the paper should not apologize.

The tumult passed, but was reignited even more furiously when Magazinet, the evangelical Christian paper in Norway, reprinted the cartoons. The editor, Vebjoern Selbekk, wrote that he was "sick of the ongoing hidden erosion of the freedom of expression." He told the Reuters news agency that he had received 15 death threats and more than 1,000 hate letters.

The Danish Foreign Ministry late Sunday issued a statement warning its citizens in nine Middle Eastern countries and the Palestinian territories to "show extra vigilance" because of the "strong negative feelings" sparked by the uproar.

Meanwhile, a Denmark-based dairy group, Arla Foods -- which according to a statement on its Web site sells about $421 million annually in the Middle East and has about 1,000 employees there -- said that sales had come to a "standstill" across the region.

The newspapers have issued explanations but have couched their apologies. "We are sorry if Muslims have been offended," Jyllands' editor in chief, Carsten Juste, told the Associated Press, adding that the newspapers actions were "within the constitution, the Danish penal code and international convention. . . . It is not a dictatorship like Saudi Arabia that is going to dictate our editorial line here in Denmark."

Norway described the cartoons as "unfortunate and deplorable." Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen has refused to apologize. In a recent speech, without mentioning the controversy, he denounced "any expression, action of indication that attempts to demonize groups of people on the basis of the religion or ethnic background." But he added that "freedom of speech is absolute. It is not negotiable."

"The question here is how far do you show sensitivity and self-control over issues without falling into self-censorship," said Medhi Mozaffari, a professor at Aarhus University in Denmark, who defended his government's stance not to apologize.

"It's unthinkable that the prime minister would make an apology," he said. "This is Islamists putting democracies on trial to see how far they can be pressured."
Article page

A good article that summarises the situation. Important points in bold.
 

firehose

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

The reaction to the publishing of the cartoons is ridiculous. As offending as they may be, not publishing them would compromise free speech and the right to criticise and satirise.

Someone said earlier that an apology was all that was asked for. That has been given, but yet Middle Eastern countries are initiating an economic boycott.

The European Union has backed Denmark and will refer boycotting countries to the WTO, and rightly so.
 

davin

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

about taht whole "oh, they're offended, but really, everyone is peaceful"
i mentioned earlier theo van gogh killed for his views.
i'd also point out the threats against http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Rushdie#The_Satanic_Verses_controversy

i still think its wrong to punish a country for allowing freedom within it like the islamic countries are trying to do, but thats more just misguided actions, but the question that still hasn't been explained is how the threats of bombs are to be explained away, considering it wouldn't exactly be surprising if it happened, based on the actions taken against those who speak out strongly agaisnt the religion.
 

withoutaface

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

last_chance said:
That is a really stupid thing to say! Muslims can handle freedom of expression, but not when it comes in the form of disrespect to the religion. If I was a Christian, Buddhist etc. I would feel the same way towards the religion. In fact mockery of any religion or faith is not freedom of expression - its anything but that. People are allowed to defend their views, but not in the form of violence. Plus that website thing might not be true - like i said the source may not be true. Besides, i reckon muslims have gone about it the right way with the proposal to the UN and the boycott.
I believe in the free market, and yet have never threatened to bomb left wing columnists for disparaging it. Same deal here, it is a belief, perhaps about something you consider incredibly significant, but it is a belief nonetheless and should be open to criticism.

EDIT: Or perhaps I find it insulting and disparaging to my views when someone claims that God has to exist. It is just illogical to censor that kind of thing.
 

withoutaface

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

last_chance said:
John Howard isn't a prophet you idiot!
He represents the strongly held beliefs of a lot of people.

Religion is just a fucking belief, and should not be given special treatment when compared to others.
 

zahid

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

GoodSirLancelot said:
Why are they burning Norwegian flags too?
on another note I heard the John howard is making it legal to burn flags.

Can someone clarify this plz?
 

zahid

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

davin said:
the UN shouldn't be involved at all...the idea of freedom of speech isnt to protect the speech you like, its to protect the speech you DON'T like.
So If I were to go out and announce that "ALL SUICIDE BOMBINGS ARE GOOD, AND ENCOURAGE ALL TERRORISTS TO GET ON WITH THEIR OPERATIONS" would you consider this freedom of speech?...

So why are ppl not allowed to say this in public, but at the same time they are allowed to make fun of our prophet?
 

davin

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zahid said:
So If I were to go out and announce that "ALL SUICIDE BOMBINGS ARE GOOD, AND ENCOURAGE ALL TERRORISTS TO GET ON WITH THEIR OPERATIONS" would you consider this freedom of speech?...

So why are ppl not allowed to say this in public, but at the same time they are allowed to make fun of our prophet?
here's the difference, one is saying things people just don't like, namely the mohammad related things.

the other is inciting violence. if you just said suicide bombings were good.... that would be one thing...it would prove the mentality of a sick, twisted, barbaric individual, but thats just an opinion still. encouraging further terrorism though is far different in that you're encouraging crime and promoting and as far as i'm concerned, that would make you an accessory, effectivly, to any terrorist acts that follow.

however zahid, as your viewpoint is apparently that people should not say anything offensive, i trust i will shortly see an apology for the 9/11 thread of yours that is quite offensive and insulting.
it would be hypocritical of you to say that this newspaper should not be allowed to say something you feel is insulting or offensive when you have done the same without apologising.
 

zahid

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

davin said:
here's the difference, one is saying things people just don't like, namely the mohammad related things.

the other is inciting violence.
The fact that you offend Islam by making fun of our prophet, is also inciting violence...is it not?
 

withoutaface

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zahid said:
The fact that you offend Islam by making fun of our prophet, is also inciting violence...is it not?
No. It is inciting laughter, it is a form of satire. It is your fault that you're too stupid to create a parody of something the artist believes in, and instead resort to violence.
 

banco55

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

I bet the danish really regret letting in large numbers of muslims. For that matter I bet lots of australians do as well. It should be obvious now that a large proportion of muslim immigrants to western countries have a value system that does not mesh well with liberal democracy. It's no accident that there is very little freedom in predominantly muslim countries.
 
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davin

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where in what they ran did it tell people to go out and murder innocent people? i mean, by your logic, i could say you're not allowed to practice islam anymore because that makes some guy angry, so you're inciting violence.

the difference is between saying something people simply don't like, and actually encouraging violence and terrorism.
i am, btw, still awaiting your apology though.
 

Serius

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withoutaface said:
The muslims can go fuck themselves quite frankly. If they dislike freedom of speech they can move back to their aristo-fascist islamic states in the middle east.
I totally agree freedom of speech all the way!

so we arent supposed to draw pictures or make fun of mohamed right?
 
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banco55

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Serius you have defamed the prophet and must be put to death.
 

davin

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well, to keep focused on the issue here is to not generalise. plenty sure that you'd get some threats from christians if something similar happened, but not to the scale that it has been.
 

Serius

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

anyways i dont see wha the fuss is all about, drawing a picture about a fictional character isnt insult, defamation and slander even if the same fictional book said in it "thou shall not draw pictures of the prophet"

draw away people, do what you like, fuck the muslims and their fucked up beleifs
i hope the daily telegraph starts a 4 week collectable sunday edition paper with a cartoon about mohamed on the front page and a cartoon mohamed bumper sticker to go with it - collect them all!
 

Not-That-Bright

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

The fact that you offend Islam by making fun of our prophet, is also inciting violence...is it not?
If you seriously cannot handle your religion being mocked and ridiculed you should not be here in Australia. We have the right to mock and ridicule your religion all we want.

 
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get_born

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withoutaface said:
No. It is inciting laughter, it is a form of satire. It is your fault that you're too stupid to create a parody of something the artist believes in, and instead resort to violence.
It makes you laugh - and at the same time offends heaps of others. Its like me pushing you on the ground and laughing at you... i call that slapstick.
 

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