The Abortion Debate (continued) (7 Viewers)

[*Minka*]

All I am trying to make you see bshoc, is that it is grossly unfair to label women sluts who just love spreading their legs so they can have abortions and then say it is unfair to place any such label on the man because he doesn't have ovaries. I am sorry, but it makes you come across as chauvinistic and will little respect for women and their rights to equality.

For the record, it men were hypothetically the ones who could become pregnant, I would support their right to an abortion.

 

[bshoc]

All I am trying to make you see bshoc, is that it is grossly unfair to label women sluts who just love spreading their legs so they can have abortions and then say it is unfair to place any such label on the man because he doesn't have ovaries. I am sorry, but it makes you come across as chauvinistic and will little respect for women and their rights to equality.

For the record, it men were hypothetically the ones who could become pregnant, I would support their right to an abortion.

I'm not interested in side debates ... now back to my post where I revealed you to be a clear hypocrite ..

 

[Serius]

But are partially responsible for getting her pregnant.

I also feel that a man's say on the potential child is important, so don't think I'm one to push the male aside. Assuming they are a communicating couple, I have a good feeling that men are very influential on deciding whether to have an abortion or not, and thus I find it uneasy when you imply that women are the "murderers" in your posts.

wow best female opinion on this thread so far.

The problem is that not every girl thinks the same way as you. That i s why i would like some legislation that gives men some sort of say in things, Maybe a consent form or something.

as for everyone throwing around figures, the fact is that no conclusive study has ever been done on abortions. The closest thing was some basic figures that came out of SA, somewhere around the mark of 50 000 - 60 000 abortions in that time period. If we extrapolate that to the rest of australia, we have enough dead fetuses to feed a small african country.

 

[gerhard]

I dont really understand why everyone agrees that abortion is a bad thing and should be limited as much as possible. It seems to contradict a lot of pro-choice views (obviously some it does not contradict). If I did not believe a feutus was a life, why would I view an abortion as a bad thing rather than just another medical procedure?

 

[ur_inner_child]

I dont really understand why everyone agrees that abortion is a bad thing and should be limited as much as possible. It seems to contradict a lot of pro-choice views (obviously some it does not contradict). If I did not believe a feutus was a life, why would I view an abortion as a bad thing rather than just another medical procedure?

Oh you mean like when I said I wouldn't mind if abortion numbers were decreased? I wasn't passionate on the issue (like not jumping up and down about it). It's a bit like my attitude towards divorce... it's a "bad" thing but its also "not", for obvious reasons.

In that context above, I was thinking along the lines of that "having no future baby" being better than aborting one.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I dont really understand why everyone agrees that abortion is a bad thing and should be limited as much as possible.

A woman having an unwanted pregnancy and having to deal with the issues associated with that is a bad thing.

 

[ur_inner_child]

A woman having an unwanted pregnancy and having to deal with the issues associated with that is a bad thing.

oh yeah and that.

You and your ability to articulate the things I want to say but better.

 

[*Minka*]

wow best female opinion on this thread so far.

The problem is that not every girl thinks the same way as you. That i s why i would like some legislation that gives men some sort of say in things, Maybe a consent form or something.

as for everyone throwing around figures, the fact is that no conclusive study has ever been done on abortions. The closest thing was some basic figures that came out of SA, somewhere around the mark of 50 000 - 60 000 abortions in that time period. If we extrapolate that to the rest of australia, we have enough dead fetuses to feed a small african country.

I understand that it would be ideal for the men to have some sort of say, but I don't really think there is a way it would work. With a consent form, I wouldn't like the idea of a women being blocked form an abortion on the basis that the man didn't sign it because that is denying her right to control her reprotuctive rights. I do think it is hard that guys really don't have a say on whether they are a parent or not - they have to go along with whatever the woman does, but sadly there is no way to do this without taking away the womans right as it is her body. An unfortunate consqeuence is that the men can be left in the cold.

 

[*Minka*]

I dont really understand why everyone agrees that abortion is a bad thing and should be limited as much as possible. It seems to contradict a lot of pro-choice views (obviously some it does not contradict). If I did not believe a feutus was a life, why would I view an abortion as a bad thing rather than just another medical procedure?

Because in an ideal world, there would be far less unplanned pregnancies.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I understand that it would be ideal for the men to have some sort of say, but I don't really think there is a way it would work. With a consent form, I wouldn't like the idea of a women being blocked form an abortion on the basis that the man didn't sign it because that is denying her right to control her reprotuctive rights. I do think it is hard that guys really don't have a say on whether they are a parent or not - they have to go along with whatever the woman does, but sadly there is no way to do this without taking away the womans right as it is her body. An unfortunate consqeuence is that the men can be left in the cold.

No, all you'd have to do is make it legal for a guy to sign a waiver saying he does not want to have responsibility for the child (in the case that she wants to have the baby and he does not).

However, there are still problems with this:

If you give men the right to absolve their legal responsibility to the baby however and the mother goes through with it, then society has to pick up any possible slack in absense of the man. The man is at the very least more responsible than society, so should be forced to pick up some of the slack.

You will probably respond with 'No it's all the womans responsibility because she had a choice' - I agree with that, but in the end we're still left with the baby and the woman. If we don't put the responsibility still somewhat into the court of the man involved, then we have to make society as a whole pay for it. I don't think it's as clear cut an issue as a womans abortion rights (to me) but I do think there are some possible practical problems with allowing men to absolve their legal responsibility to the child.

 

[_dhj_]

I dont really understand why everyone agrees that abortion is a bad thing and should be limited as much as possible. It seems to contradict a lot of pro-choice views (obviously some it does not contradict). If I did not believe a feutus was a life, why would I view an abortion as a bad thing rather than just another medical procedure?

In reality people don't have black and white attitudes on these issues. There are grey areas between a totally inanimate object and a child. Of course when it comes up to lawmakers it has to be decided in black and white. There has to be an exact time when an embryo or fetus is legally deemed as a baby.

 

[*Minka*]

No, all you'd have to do is make it legal for a guy to sign a waiver saying he does not want to have responsibility for the child (in the case that she wants to have the baby and he does not).

However, there are still problems with this:

Oh sorry, I misunderstood what you mean. I do think waivers such as that could work in some form - stating that he doesn't want responsibility foer the child, but upon singing, loses any claim to the child in the future. I thought you meant a consent form for a woman having an abortion - which is what I said wouldn;t work.

Sorry about that - I have been here nearly ten years and my English is still pretty shitty at times.

 

[withoutaface]

No, all you'd have to do is make it legal for a guy to sign a waiver saying he does not want to have responsibility for the child (in the case that she wants to have the baby and he does not).

However, there are still problems with this:

If the mother's stupid enough to have the child when she can't take care of it, it should be put through the foster system and things would be no different than if she didn't have it at all.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

If the mother's stupid enough to have the child when she can't take care of it, it should be put through the foster system and things would be no different than if she didn't have it at all.

What? Take the child from her? If you have a child and you're poor/can't work/don't have family to help you, you have to give up your child? Not necessarily a terrible idea. Either way to me I still don't like the idea of society having to pay for two people's mistakes and they don't have to pay at all. I think it could also lead to men being much less responsible, lower rates of condom use etc.

 

[ur_inner_child]

All people who engage in abortions are ho's now?

Didn't we establish somewhere earlier on that having an abortion does not imply promiscuity?

 

[bshoc]

All people who engage in abortions are ho's now?

Didn't we establish somewhere earlier on that having an abortion does not imply promiscuity?

We did .. pay more attention to the context in which the comment is made.

 

[ur_inner_child]

We did .. pay more attention to the context in which the comment is made.

It looked decorative and unnecessary to the context.

Only the last sentence seemed to be of value.

 

[*Minka*]

Only 1, we can leave the ho to keep on ho'ing whilst still pretending she's exercising her womens liberation freedoms or whatever bullshit is fed into their minds these days. I'll happily foot the additional taxes for the babies, heck we could just pull medicare abortion funds and international planned parenthood organizational subsidies and use those instead.

Are you calling me a Ho?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

. I'll happily foot the additional taxes for the babies, heck we could just pull medicare abortion funds and international planned parenthood organizational subsidies and use those instead.

Aside from the fact that you advocate a very expensive draconian policing option to stop abortions from being carried out, that paying for a baby is more expensive than assisting women in getting abortions and that in my discussion the premise was that abortions were legal (obviously, look at what I wrote)....

How are you going to deal with male responsibility when it comes to sex? Surely men should have an equal responsibility to women when it comes to engaging in sexual relations, with the ability to absolve responsibility in the advent of a pregnancy how many men (whom are assholes) do you think will continue to wear a condom and practice safe sex?

Is it then possible that this could lead to more unwanted pregnancies?

 

[bshoc]

Aside from the fact that you advocate a very expensive draconian policing option to stop abortions from being carried out, that paying for a baby is more expensive than assisting women in getting abortions and that in my discussion the premise was that abortions were legal (obviously, look at what I wrote)....

How are you going to deal with male responsibility when it comes to sex? Surely men should have an equal responsibility to women when it comes to engaging in sexual relations, with the ability to absolve responsibility in the advent of a pregnancy how many men (whom are assholes) do you think will continue to wear a condom and practice safe sex?

Is it then possible that this could lead to more unwanted pregnancies?

Is it possible that illigalizing drugs leads to more drug users? Use your head.