The Beijing Olympics (2 Viewers)

[zstar]

As far as I'm concerned

Tibet belongs to China
Taiwan belongs to China
Xinjiang belongs to China

If you don't like it then you can go to hell.

 

[abbeyroad]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

I'm fairly certain that not harvesting the organs of people you don't agree with isn't just beyond the pale for the 'evil imperialist west'. I'm saying that the whole notion of cultural relativity is absolutely self-indulgent piffle that allows ivory-tower academics to wank on about subjectivism and the evils of objective pragmatism and thus not put their necks on the line with an actual moral position.

I think it is utterly despicable and inhuman to mass harvest organs. I think it is despicable and inhuman to quash freedom of speech. I think it is despicable and inhuman to see your citizens as human chattel. I think it is despicable and inhuman to see the rights of a certain individual impinged through the tick of a fountain pen on the sheet of a death list.

Did I mention the fucking organ harvesting? Did I mention the mass executions? Did I mention the absolute smothering of any manner of dissent? Those seem to be pretty despicable to any human being with any faculties of reason. Glad to see you don't want to be counted among those enlightened fellows.

The mass executions? The fucking organ harvesting? Have you seen, no, the real question is, have you heard about this "organ farming" you keep referring to from credible primary sources? Have you ever been to China? Or you've only read about the fucking organ harvesting on teh interwebz? People who are dying arould the world waiting for an organ transplant rejoice!!! For the Chinese government is harvesting them fucking organs by the thousands!!!

The United States, vanguard of freedom, are killing thousands of innocent women and children in Iraq and Afghanistan as we speak. Did you ever bat an eye? Its war of terrorism are causing irreconcilable damages to the social fabrics of not only those 2 nations, but the whole of middle east; it is responsible for the displacement of millions of people and also indirectly, the current world food shortage. Hundreds of millions of people in developing countries and specifically, Africa are going to starve because of that. Did you ever bat an eye? People are "detained" in Guantanamo Bay for being branded a terrorist or an enemy combatant, and denied one of the most basic human rights, the rights to due process. Did you ever bat an eye? I don't see you protesting America's human rights abuse? I don't see you hoisting a banner that reads "Free Iraq" on the harbour bridge? No, the United States is our big brother! We can't touch them, we have to follow them all the way, because the United States can never be wrong! China on the other hand, is free game, seeing as they're asian and all. That's it, that's what it really comes down to isn't it? It's all about race and who we are on friendly terms with. Screw the towelheads, we can't afford to offend our protector, the almighty US of A now can we? Hey, if China can completely disregard the "UN's basic charter of human rights and human freedoms", who's to say we can't bend the rules a little?
Tell me, since you're so high up in the clouds on that horse of yours; from a moral standpoint, is there a difference between oppressing the rights of a country's own citizens and oppressing that of another's?

If it were left up to official Chinese government sources, we'd have absolutely no ideas as to what they were up to. Thankfully the democratising power of the internet and its wonderful additions to freedom of speech and information allow us to see the gross misconduct of the nation for what they are; despicable and inhuman suppressions of basic human rights.

Yeah zomfg zeh onederful interwebz is always rightzzzz~~~1111!!!!! Hear hear~!!1111!! All hail teh interwebzzes wondrous addition$$$ to zeh freedom of speech and zeh all very important free flow of zeh information~!!!!1111!!!
All hail the democratisingness and teh uber 10100111001 powerness teh interwebz bringessss11111!1!!1!!!!!!1! !!!!!!!&^*&(&()(()^&%$**(%^!$!!!!!!!

I saw Bill Gates' five cow titties being milked by some funny looking machine on the internet once. Should I believe that Bill Gates has five cow titties? Should I protest against the despicable abuse of this man's dignity and by extension, the unethical treatment of animals? Do not believe everything you read on the so very wonderful internet. Do not believe everything the media machine feeds you. Last time I watched CNN, they were talking about how Saddam Hussein has UAVs carrying weapons of mass destruction hidden in cargo ships off the Atlantic coast ready to be deployed against the U.S eastern seaboard.

Christ about this whole "Tibet has always been a part of China" debacle, hell, lets restart the Holy Roman Empire, I mean, those new independent states are only where they are now because the Holy Roman Empire gave them the gifts and goods and now in the winter of our discontent they have separated in an act of traitorous barbarism!

Well you're wrong because by that logic the entire world belongs to the Holy Roman Empire.

Why don't you go celebrate your nation's status as number one sufferer of cancer (A very modern disease)

Get off your moral high horse, and go learn some history if you want to talk politics. Throughout the countless empires that had ruled China for hundreds of years, Tibet has always been part of China. You can no more separate Tibet from China than you can any other province; doing so would mean a fragmented China, as China is made up of different kingdoms from ages past. Do you have any idea what would happen if Tibet gained independence? If somehow, Tibet had gained independence from China, any other province can follow suit. Do you have any idea what that would spell for China? One need not to look far back in time to see how a country reacts to its states proclaiming independence as the American Civil War can attest. Can you understand why Chinese nationals get so worked up when it comes to the status of Tibet and Taiwan? Still, you don't care, the slogan "Free Tibet" looks cool and a weakened and divided China is what you want to see.

Even if you don't believe in the UN's basic charter of human rights and human freedoms, you still have to admit that the mass suppression of dissent and the utterly sickening way in which those dissenters are treated is beyond recompense.

But no, please, by all means. Let us live in this idyllic world where the individual mind is subsumed into the consciousness of the divine correctness!

Please, let us bathe in the glory of the second leap forward, I mean, christ, only a few more million have to die for the glory of China to be even more resplendent. Heap another couple of million bodies on the pyre, we've certainly got enough coal to turn their thoughts and corporeal forms to ash, why should we treat them as anything more than fuel or traitors?

EDIT: In your own manner, let us have the bleeding hearts who call for equality among all human beings be slowly crushed beneath the treads of Chinese progress. After all, those interlopers are seeking to cause disunity, an unpalatable offense in this glorious nation of ours!

You keep talking about freedoms and liberties like you read it in a book, but you do not truly understand freedom unless you had it taken from you.
Yes, I agree, those Chinese commie bastards do not have a spotless record when it comes to respecting individual rights; and the manners in which they suppress and undermine basic civil liberties are atrocious, but they are no where as immoral as organ farming. Show me a country that has never trampled on liberty and I'll show you ten that has. The real problem plaguing China is not the ridiculously alleged organ farming but rather, the wide spread corruption among commie officials. Of course, you'll never hear that from the media, as organ farming makes for a much much more colourful story.

 

[abbeyroad]

*Waiting for replies from self-righteous "intellectuals" who have never even been to China and brainwashed Chinese patriots who blindly follow the government and who thought the "June Fourth Incident" was a mining accident.

 

[HalcyonSky]

*Waiting for replies from self-righteous "intellectuals" who has never even been to China and brainwashed Chinese patriots who blindly follow the government and who thought the "June Fourth Incident" was a mining accident.

actually, we've seen enough laughable chinese patriotism in this thread to not care.

 

[Slidey]

As far as I'm concerned

Tibet belongs to China
Taiwan belongs to China
Xinjiang belongs to China

If you don't like it then you can go to hell.

Ironically, it's probably China who'll be in hell if it moves for Taiwan through force. Taiwan is a US ally, buddy, and has two massive US allies just above: South Korea and Japan, who together have some of the biggest armies and best military technology in the world. Australia could also be called into action depending on America's tactics.

Anyway, Taiwan doesn't belong to China anymore than Australia belongs to England.

 

[banco55]

Ironically, it's probably China who'll be in hell if it moves for Taiwan through force. Taiwan is a US ally, buddy, and has two massive US allies just above: South Korea and Japan, who together have some of the biggest armies and best military technology in the world. Australia could also be called into action depending on America's tactics.

Anyway, Taiwan doesn't belong to China anymore than Australia belongs to England.

Japan and South Korea would be very reluctant to get involved in any China/Taiwan stand off.

 

[danlan]

Ironically, it's probably China who'll be in hell if it moves for Taiwan through force. Taiwan is a US ally, buddy, and has two massive US allies just above: South Korea and Japan, who together have some of the biggest armies and best military technology in the world. Australia could also be called into action depending on America's tactics.

Anyway, Taiwan doesn't belong to China anymore than Australia belongs to England.

If the war really occurs, I'm afraid massive Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles + nuclear warheads might be used. Hope there is no such a war.

 

[abbeyroad]

Ironically, it's probably China who'll be in hell if it moves for Taiwan through force. Taiwan is a US ally, buddy, and has two massive US allies just above: South Korea and Japan, who together have some of the biggest armies and best military technology in the world. Australia could also be called into action depending on America's tactics.

Anyway, Taiwan doesn't belong to China anymore than Australia belongs to England.

Oh here we go, another hawkish sino relations "expert". It's probably China who'll be in hell? Do you understand the implications an all out war between China and America would bring? Can you grasp the repercussion sucn a war would have on the world economy, as countries around the world are relying more and more on cheap Chinese products to help curb inflation? America and it's allies are smart enough to avoid a major conflict with the Chinese, especially over a tiny island. The "my daddy beats your daddy"mentality does not work in the world of politics. Let's not forget, China has something neither Koread nor Japan have, thermonuclear weapons. That in itself is enough to deter America's so called "allies" from fighting a proxy war with China. The way I see it, it's going to be the cold war all over again, with lot's of talk and no action. In the hightly improbable event that China "moves for Taiwan through force", Taiwan would fall within days; the U.S is going to send its 7th fleet to the Philippine Sea, out of range of the Chinese land based ASUW missiles, their flyboys are going to practice carrier ops for a week or two; In the meanwhile, America's "allies" are going to "condemn" China like they always do, and threaten sanctions, like they always do. In the end what's gonna happen? Nothing. Once the dust settled, The 7th fleet will go on it's merry way, the world will once again pretend as if nothing ever happened. Why? Because the world needs China, namely, it needs the 3 dollars shoes China produces. In the end, money is what really matters. Wars between superpowers are no longer fought with guns, but money. The U.S won the cold war not because they had more tanks or planes than the Soviet Union, nor was it because they were more technologically advanced, it was simply because they had more money.

Taiwan doesn't belong to China anymore than Australia belongs to England? So tell me, who's that woman I keep seeing on our money? Besides, it's a wrong analogy.
The Federation of Australia was once colonies of the Brititsh Empire; while Taiwan has been a province of China for who-knows-how-long-the-Chinese-have-been-around. The status quo is a result of the defeat of the Chinese Nationalist Party, or Kuomintang if you will, by the Chinese Commie Party in the Chinese civil war and the KMT's subsequent retreat to Taiwan. Hence there are 2 China, the Republic of China represented by the KMT and the People's Republic of China(it always gives me a few chuckles, I mean come on, make up your fucking mind, what's the difference really? The peoples?) It is not up to the U.S, let alone you, to say whether Taiwan belongs to China. It is up the the current elected government of Taiwan, the Chinese Nationalist Party. It is highly unlikely they will ever advocate independence though, as the Kuomintang aims to retake mainland China and liberate it from them damn commies. Hmm maybe when China has democracy.
Food for thought.

 

[JaredR]

I thank the Australian people, especially those in Canberra for not embarassing Australia in the international arena through violent protest and assault.

It makes me proud to be Australian.

 

[Iron]

Yeah well I can at least confirm that the passion of the pro-China posters here very much corresponds with reality

Won Chi-nar

 

[zstar]

Ironically, it's probably China who'll be in hell if it moves for Taiwan through force. Taiwan is a US ally, buddy, and has two massive US allies just above: South Korea and Japan, who together have some of the biggest armies and best military technology in the world. Australia could also be called into action depending on America's tactics.

Anyway, Taiwan doesn't belong to China anymore than Australia belongs to England.

There is no country called Taiwan.

It's the Republic of China, After WW2 one of the agreements was that Taiwan would return to China .

But after the civil war the Mainland became the Socialist People's republic of China and the Nationalist republic of China which was pro free market.

The pro-independence groups like the Tibetan separatists created another mythical nation that does not exist. Only a tiny minority support independence.

 

[Slidey]

banco55: New Zealand was reluctant to send any troops to Iraq, since it technically had no mutual aid pact with America anymore, but by the transitive property, it had one with Australia and Australia had one with the US, meaning New Zealand essentially had one with the US.

South Korea and Japan similarly have such pacts with the US. Dismissing them when a country like China declares an act of war is ludicrous.

Oh here we go, another hawkish sino relations "expert". It's probably China who'll be in hell? Do you understand the implications an all out war between China and America would bring? Can you grasp the repercussion sucn a war would have on the world economy, as countries around the world are relying more and more on cheap Chinese products to help curb inflation?

It works both ways. China knows this, and it is the reason Chinese hasn't taken Taiwan by force so far.

America and it's allies are smart enough to avoid a major conflict with the Chinese, especially over a tiny island.

America and its allies are smart enough to know that you can't let a country like China pick off democracies one at a time. There is all indication that America would respond to a Chinese invasion of Taiwan.

Again, China knows this too, which is why they are attempting to integrate Taiwan through bluff, intimidation and economics instead.

The rest of your post is your personal speculation, much of it rather wild. For example you say that America would take 2 weeks to act, yet in 2005 America signed a pact with Japan that meant if Taiwan were attacked, Japanese troops would aid America in the defence. Somehow I doubt there would be a slow response time to something America has been anticipating for years.

Taiwan has been essentially independent of China for about 50 years now, yet you claim China has every right to invade and colonise it?

And no, Australia doesn't belong to England. If you read the various policies of Australia, such as the Statute of Westminster, the Australia Act, etc, you'd know that.

Our relationship to England is a consensual one. One which now is effectively an alliance of cultures and aims, not duty or control.

If the war really occurs, I'm afraid massive Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles + nuclear warheads might be used. Hope there is no such a war.

Any credibility China has would disappear if China used nukes on Taiwan. I imagine it really would spark a world war, grotesque a notion as that is.

 

[zstar]

Taiwan has been essentially independent of China for about 50 years now, yet you claim China has every right to invade and colonise it?

Once you again you're confused.

Taiwan under no agreement was independent.

The Taiwan government was the Republic of China government which was recognised by the UN until around 78-79 When relations were switched to the PRC.

Under no circumstance was Taiwan an independent country.

It is called the Republic of China as stipulated by the Cairo declaration.

 

[Slidey]

Once you again you're confused.

Taiwan under no agreement was independent.

The Taiwan government was the Republic of China government which was recognised by the UN until around 78-79 When relations were switched to the PRC.

Under no circumstance was Taiwan an independent country.

It is called the Republic of China as stipulated by the Cairo declaration.

I said "essentially independent". I'm pretty sure you can read, so I'm guessing you just accidentally missed the word 'essentially'.

Taiwan is, for all intents and purposes, a separate country and a separate entity, and has been for a long time (since the early 1950's, not 1979).

 

[AlleyCat]

I thank the Australian people, especially those in Canberra for not embarassing Australia in the international arena through violent protest and assault.

It makes me proud to be Australian.

i was there, and the behavior of the pro china protesters was despicable.

one man spat on a small child, the other threw fruit and a full water bottle at an old man, amongst the general hatred towards a small group of genuinely peaceful protesters.

EDIT: and i'll add that the man who got water thrown all over him (on a freezing cold canberra morning) had this done to him because he was showing a picture of his brother who was mutilated and murdered by the chinese government just after march 10. at least 5 women started shrieking at him that "that is photoshopped!" when it clearly wasnt.

shame.

 

[Iron]

i was there, and the behavior of the pro china protesters was despicable.

one man spat on a small child, the other threw fruit and a full water bottle at an old man, amongst the general hatred towards a small group of genuinely peaceful protesters.

EDIT: and i'll add that the man who got water thrown all over him (on a freezing cold canberra morning) had this done to him because he was showing a picture of his brother who was mutilated and murdered by the chinese government just after march 10. at least 5 women started shrieking at him that "that is photoshopped!" when it clearly wasnt.

shame.

I was surprised that the media didnt make more out of it. We saw this one Tibetan guy get chased for about 50meters before being surrounded by legions of very red, chanting, drum-beat following zombies who tore up his flag and then called their friends about it.
It was an INVASION. What life would be like if we lost that war we never fought

 

[utookmyusername]

I have to admit that despite the fact I really want something to come out of all these protests for Tibet, I don't think anything will change. The Olympics will run its course and be 'successful' and in the end, nothing will have changed, and the world will pretty much forget about Tibet once again.

The thing that really annoys me though is that on the news, the Australian Olympic Committee is congratulating itself for having a 'successful' torch run. I think that just shows the little regard Australians have for the injustices that occur to people other than themselves. I would've been prouder if there had been a full scale riot.

As for the athletes, they should understand that this is bigger than they are. If boycotting these games stops this violation of human rights, wouldn't missing it have been worth it? Yes, I understand that they may have been training their whole lives for this but imagine what it'd be like to be a Tibetan living in Tibet right now. I'd admire the athletes more if they boycott these games than if they won all the gold medals.

 

[Graney]

Where did all these pro-china nationalists come from? I couldn't believe people like that exist in this country.

I don't understand why, living in Australia, you would continue to have a crazy unquestioning reverence for the motherland? Every country has it's positive and negative, their blind refusal to accept the complexity of their countries history is embarassing.

 

[AlleyCat]

I was surprised that the media didnt make more out of it. We saw this one Tibetan guy get chased for about 50meters before being surrounded by legions of very red, chanting, drum-beat following zombies who tore up his flag and then called their friends about it.
It was an INVASION. What life would be like if we lost that war we never fought

pussies.

my boyfriend got beaten with flagpoles and told to "go home".

...he lives in woden.

 

[Slidey]

Where did all these pro-china nationalists come from? I couldn't believe people like that exist in this country.

I don't understand why, living in Australia, you would continue to have a crazy unquestioning reverence for the motherland? Every country has it's positive and negative, their blind refusal to accept the complexity of their countries history is embarassing.

Yeah, I think embarrassing is probably one of the best words to describe it.