The F1 Thread (7 Viewers)

[el gwapo]

re: The Official F1 Thread

Alonso will most likely go to Ferrari next year, if not he'll be there 2009. ITV were talking about that, the problem would be where he would go in 2008: seeing as he's not in talking terms with the owner and his team mate, he'd be rebuilding a lot of burnt bridges to secure a drive for 18-19 races, knowing he'd be wearing red. Plus should he be "sold" to Ferrari, Mclaren would be effectively using red money to pay their massive fine

But back to the race; and what a hell of a race. Plus, it was LIVE FROM CHANNEL TEN, that was uncharacteristically nice of them. I hope China will be live as well. The tension was killing me, with Alonso crashing all of a sudden, the mid-race dip of form with the Macs. And you couldn't go online to see the results (the chicken way out) which you could in delayed. On another note Vettel and Webber, two ways to deal with disappointment. I was expecting some kind of verbal abuse from Webber, watching his body language when he went out of the car. You sensed if he didn't say the F word he was calmed down by some drugs or is on botox

 

[Cape]

re: The Official F1 Thread

China will be delayed until 1am Sydney time, because of Bathurst

Poor Webber, dare I say, he looked like he could have won that GP

How good was Kimi driving through the field? Him and Heikki at the end were amazing, same with Massa and Kubica.

Lewis really needs to stop playing chicken and brake testing under safety car.

 

[el gwapo]

re: The Official F1 Thread

Bathurst?! They don't even bloody show it. Yourtv.com.au says it's just a load of more RWC replays. That's a load of shite.

But it being in the holidays will soften the blow a bit. I hope Lewis wins in here so that Brazil won't be as significant, because it's 3-4 hours before the maths exam if I'm not mistaken

 

[Cape]

re: The Official F1 Thread

Rusty needs Cam there to help him commentate

 

[ObjectsInSpace]

re: The Official F1 Thread

Alonso will most likely go to Ferrari next year, if not he'll be there 2009. ITV were talking about that, the problem would be where he would go in 2008: seeing as he's not in talking terms with the owner and his team mate, he'd be rebuilding a lot of burnt bridges to secure a drive for 18-19 races, knowing he'd be wearing red. Plus should he be "sold" to Ferrari, Mclaren would be effectively using red money to pay their massive fine

Wrong. It seems Flav has offered 'Nando his old race seat at Renault, citing McLaren's "no numero uno" policy for teating drivers the same as being the major flaw in the contract. However, Alonso apaprently prefers Giancarlo Fisichella as team-mate over Kovalainen, but that's just because he doesn't want a younger team-mate who might actually beat him.

 

[Team 1A]

re: The Official F1 Thread

No one wants a faster teammate, but he isn't really in the situation to demand things is he.

 

[ObjectsInSpace]

re: The Official F1 Thread

Of course no-one wants a faster team-mate, but Alonso wants a team where he knows he's going to be treated as the first driver and the other guy is there to fill up the numbers. The problem with Flav's comment is that he says "Alonso was treated like a rookie" because he was treated the same way as Hamilton. This is wrong; to say that Hamilton was treated the same way as Alonso because of his talent would be far mroe accurate. McLaren usually pour all their resources into the two drivers and when one emerges as dominant, they get slightly more as it's useless to give equal weight to two people when one is fighting for the championship and one isn't. Alonso wanted to be given the bigger piece of the pie from day one instead of proving that he deserved it.

 

[ObjectsInSpace]

re: The Official F1 Thread

It seems the Hamster crashed out of the Chinese Grand Prix - I was following Bathurst and not the Formula1.com updates, so I only have it on second-hand information - and Kubica retired while leading. The championship is now wide open for three drivers to win in Sao Paulo.

So no pressure, guys.

 

[Doosta]

re: The Official F1 Thread

That is true, Hamilton crashed on lap 33 or 36 cant remember but Kimi won with Alonso second. Hamilton leads from Alonso by 4 points and Kimi by 7 so Sao Paulo will be the decider.

GO HAMILTON

 

[ObjectsInSpace]

re: The Official F1 Thread

Sorry, but Hamilton's really fallen out of favour with me after some of his comments about how "I was thinking about Senna and Prost and how what I'm doing is similar". In fact, of the three championship contenders, I can't say I want any of them to win. Hamilton's an arrogant git, Alonso's a poilt git and Raikkonen's a Ferrari git.

On another forum I'm on, there's a conspiracy theory about how the FIA is rigging the championship so they get a British champion. But they're the same people with a conspiracy theory that the FIA has it in for McLaren. Tell me, how does awarding the single biggest sporting penalty in history actuall help Hamilton's title bid?

 

[Cape]

re: The Official F1 Thread

Don't forget the backmarkers are monkey's comment. Lewis is staying to believe this hype written in the press, from about Monaco onwards.

Kimi to do the almost impossible! But I doubt it. I actually hope Alonso wins the title and takes the number 1 back to Renault next year

You can see the conspiracy. The crane incident in Germany (don't even think about comparing it when MS was pushed back on the track); Hamilton's antics and balant disobeying of team orders in Hungary which the FIA penalised Alonso. The only reason why the drivers weren't penalised in the whole Spy saga, was because Alonso came forward with the emails.

Oh, and theres a little article about Bernie saying Lewis would be a better champion that Raikkonen or Alonso.

 

[ObjectsInSpace]

re: The Official F1 Thread

In actual fact, I don't see the conspiracy. These people seem to think that the FIA is assissting Hamilton to win, but I still have no idea how penalising his team that much actual aids him. See, McLaren's budget for last year was in the neighbourhood of $400 million, which they spent throughout the year. Their fine was more than a quarter of that, which would cut into any budget McLaren would have to develop extra aero aids for the final few races of the season, all of which have proven crucial to Hamilton and Alonso's title bids. But these people take it one step further; Peter Windsor, who has some connection the the FIA (or FOM) accidently said "We ... I mean, McLaren ..." at one of the previous races, leading the people posting these theories to believe that the FIA are right in the thick of it, even though they don't know the context those comments were made in ...

And for the record, Bernie was quoted as saying "The winner of the Bahrain Grand Prix will be crowned the 2007 World Champion" (or words to that effect), which was Felipe Massa who is no longer in the title hunt.

 

[Team 1A]

re: The Official F1 Thread

Sorry, but Hamilton's really fallen out of favour with me after some of his comments about how "I was thinking about Senna and Prost and how what I'm doing is similar". In fact, of the three championship contenders, I can't say I want any of them to win. Hamilton's an arrogant git, Alonso's a poilt git and Raikkonen's a Ferrari git.

On another forum I'm on, there's a conspiracy theory about how the FIA is rigging the championship so they get a British champion. But they're the same people with a conspiracy theory that the FIA has it in for McLaren. Tell me, how does awarding the single biggest sporting penalty in history actuall help Hamilton's title bid?

Hamilton will never equal Senna no matter how many races he wins or how many titles he gets.

I would not be suprised if the FIA are rigging the championship.

Also while we are on the issue of Senna, any opinions of the thoery that his car was tampered with, and that someone in the know was to affraid to talk in fear of their life about the incident.
I done some reading on it awhile back but it's hard to get all the information when I can't read what they wrote about it in Brazil

 

[ObjectsInSpace]

re: The Official F1 Thread

Hamilton will never equal Senna no matter how many races he wins or how many titles he gets.

I would not be suprised if the FIA are rigging the championship.

Also while we are on the issue of Senna, any opinions of the thoery that his car was tampered with, and that someone in the know was to affraid to talk in fear of their life about the incident.
I done some reading on it awhile back but it's hard to get all the information when I can't read what they wrote about it in Brazil

His car wasn't tampered with, but it was modified. For the first two races Williams been having a few problems with the steering arm in that was was simply too long for the car to be properly driveable, or so Senna felt, and he asked the mechanics to try and get a shorter one in for Imola. They weren't able to get one in time, so they came up with the solution of carefully cutting a section out and welding it back together, a modification which was approved. Conspiracy theories are abound that the last second or two of in-car footage from Senna's car - footage which was somehow lost or destroyed - show the sterring wheel coming away cleanly in his hands. Other theories suggest that the Italians kept Senna's body alive even after he was brain-dead because under Italian law, a sporting event must be immediately cancelled if there is a death during the event, and the Italians didn't want to stop the race.

However, I don't believe any of the theories. There's nothing to suggest Senna's death was a murder (and even if there was, there would be far easier ways to be certain he wouold die and still make it look like an accident). End of story.





I also see no reason as to why the FIA would rig the championship in light of current events. Sure, Lewis Hamilton is both British and doing well, but how exactly does penalising his team - and then suggesting it wasn't severe enough - help him? How does authorising an official to oversee McLaren's treatment of Alonso in Brazil benefit anyone other than Alonso (and the public, if only because it will shut the Spaniard up once and for all)? You're wrapping all these shadows and moonbeams togehter to come up with what you want to see, but how does forcing McLaren - and therefore Hamilton - to run last year's chassis against this year's Ferrari benefit the British driver? The FIA isn't even based in England, its headquarters are in Paris!





Finally, Ralf "Third Best Driver" Schumacher is adamant he will be racing in Formula One next year, though he doesn't know which team. The only real options would be McLaren (assuming Alonso leaves, which he will; and he'll have one of Alain Prost's "if you sign me, you won't sign Senna" clauses in his contract, though this one will be "if you sign me, you won't sign Hamilton"), Williams (but Sir Frank has run Ralf before and probably won't do it again) and Prodrive (who won't be competitive enough to sustain Ralf's ego, assuming they make it to the grid [which they still might not do, following a legal challenge by Williams]). My bet is that he'll end up driving the Safety Car.

 

[StuntManonFire]

re: The Official F1 Thread

What about the fact that the 'blackbox' was destroyed by Williams from Senna's car before the inquest?
Why destroy something so critical to the investigation?

Adolpho Melchionda:
"The computer in Senna's Williams which held the data we needed was removed from the car after the accident and smashed."

"When it was returned to us one month later it was useless. Every expert on the investigating team knows how the accident happened, but no one is talking. Some are afraid for their lives."

By the way this is Team1A. Wrong account.

 

[ObjectsInSpace]

re: The Official F1 Thread

Alright, this really bugs me. Conspiracy theories are made up of two separate yet equally important parts: the evidence and the motive. Take the September Eleven attacks. There is a theory that suggests Israel knew about al-Qaeda's plans for the day and did not warn the United States. Evidence is provided that there were no Jewish workers in the twin towers on the day because they had bene told not to go to work. The motive is that the attacks suited Israel because America would retaliate against the terrorists, therefore aiding Israel in the struggle against Palestine.

Now, let's put this conspiracy-evidence-motive trifecta into context with the death of Senna. We'll use another example: the conspiracy to keep Senna's body alive. The evidence comes from the testimony of medical professionals who say that Senna was unethically kept alive even though he had died, and the account by Sid Watkins saying that he saw Senna die when he got to the car. The motive being that organisers of the event would be subject to investigation and the race cancelled if there was a death at the event.

So, let's apply the model to your notion: the conspiracy is to kill Senna, or at the very least prevent him from finishing the race. The evidence you (and I, though indirectly) have provided is that the data recorder was removed and destroyed (assuming it survived the crash), that the in-car footage stops one and a half seconds before impact and that the length of Senna's steering arm was changed (though it was at Senna's request). My question to you is this: what motive would Sir Frank Williams or anyone else within the team have for attempting to sabotage one of their own drivers?

 

[StuntManonFire]

re: The Official F1 Thread

He was the best, and the only way he was going away was to kill him. Happened to our good friend Pharlap, and I feel Senna got the same treatment.

Money talks, and for the right price alot of people would do the same.

 

[ObjectsInSpace]

re: The Official F1 Thread

Why would you want the best driver in the world to die? Sure, you might be the second-best driver, but Alain Prost had retired at the end of 1993 and Michael Schumacher was only just beginning his career. Senna would have retired eventually; killing him made no sense.

Sorry, but that's not a good enough reason.

 

[StuntManonFire]

re: The Official F1 Thread

Maybe your blind.

 

[ObjectsInSpace]

re: The Official F1 Thread

I ain't blind.

There's no sense in killing Senna simply because he was the best, much less having his own team do it. If you've seen the videos of Senna's crash - which I'm assuming you have - it's not a particularly bad one. Aside from him dying, it was not an incredibly serious accident in the vein of Barichello's just days earlier.

Take the last time there was a fatality in Formula One: JV's wipeout when he hit Ralf Schumacher in Melbourne a few years ago. A tyre from his car was sheared off and ended up killing a marshal. That tyre was forty-seven centimetres wide. The gap it wnet through was forty-eight. Change one variable - speed, relative track position, wheel angle, etc - by even the slightest of margins and the marshal would have survived.

Unfortunate as it was, Ayrton Senna's death was a tragic accident. A piece of suspension broke off and penetrated his helmet, hitting him in the temporal lobe, which caused a massive brain haemorrhage. Do you have any idea of the element of random chance involved there? Telemetry showed Senna was doing 218km/h; if he had have been doing 217 or 219, he probably would have lived. If he were two metres further down the track when he went off, the accident would have been very different.

You seem to think that Senna's car was tampered with to cause him to have a fatal accident. The only modifications that were made were to the steering column at Senna's request, changes which were inspected and approved by the FIA. Yet the steering column didn't kill him; it was a wayward piece of suspension that managed to hit his helmet in precisely the wrong place. Your argument is specious; there was no-one who would want Senna dead. He was one of the most popular drivers at the time, was an advocate of driver safety and nobody within the sport at the time of the accident had anything to gain from his death.

If the car was tampered with and whoever did it had the intention of killing Senna, it wa quite possibly the worst way to go about it. There was nothing to guarantee that he would even have an accident in the first place, let alone a fatal one. He had to leave the track in exactly the wrong place at exactly the wrong time and travelling at exactly the wrong speed - which, sadly, he did - for the accident to be fatal. And there was - and still is - absolutely no possible way of prediciting with anything even slightly resembling accuracy.

And who would do it? Another driver? That would mean paying off a member of another team and as Coughlan and Stepney proved this year, there's always a paper trail. Someone would have been caught. Someone within his own team, then? Why would someone within a Formula One team want to kill one of their own drivers when he was their best shot at winning the title? It makes absolutely no sense. The team's then-third driver, David Coulthard, purely to get a race seat? That's even more ridiculous!

I'm sorry, but the notion that Ayrton Senna was murdered holds absolutely no weight. But I can see you've already conceded the point to me; most people degenerate into petty insults when they can't think of a good counter-argument.

Show me one solid, verifiable piece of evidence that Ayrton Senna was murdered - and I don't mean circumstantial stuff, like missing in-car footage or an anonymous Williams team members who is still afraid to come forward - and maybe I'll start listening to you.