Why do the students who go to the best schools get the best marks? (1 Viewer)

[chubzy]

^ one of the main reasons that motivates the cohort of a top school to work together to raise everyone else's marks. (after trials of course haha)

a lot of people have pride in the school ranks, as stupid as the system is, and that drives them to maintain it, which in effect works out relatively well for everyone in the grade

 

[booshbanditxx]

Just some food for thought:

I heard somewhere that in private schools, teachers do not need to be 'HSC trained' to teach HSC classes, as opposed to public schools where teachers must be 'HSC trained' before taking a HSC class.

Also, I go to a public school and one of our English teachers was top in the state for her HSC.

 

[Drongoski]

This might be a stupid question, but why is it only the Boys'/Girls' grammar/Catholic/Boarding schools come first?

No - that's not a fact. Most of the top students come from the top selective schools - in the solid courses like MX1, MX2, Chemistry, Economics, . . . . Light-weight courses like Gen Maths, SOR, Visual Arts, PDHPE, Macedonian Continuers, Cambodian, Aboriginal Studies etc - don't really rate imo.

Of course sometimes some of the top private schools have top students. But don't forget: every year such schools poach some of the very smartest students by offering them scholarships. Such scholarships are not offered out of the goodness of their hearts. Mostly they are to improve the schools' bloodline. If the top private schools don't offer these scholarships, then see how many of them have students coming 1st?

In fact I have often wondered, over the last 10 years, say, what percentage of those from private schools who came out 1st were non-scholarship students?

 

[foodmaniac]

I think it's mostly the environment of the school. Although speaking from experience, my collegues and I do far less work than the year 11s at my school, and I go to a selective school as well. I don't think it's a matter of resources either, since the general rule of thumb is that the better the results are for a school, the crappier resources they have (see: James Ruse). It is difficult to specify what exactly it is that makes students from selective schools get higher marks at the end; most probably a combination of the parent's and teacher's expectations paired with the students wanting to do better.

I personally hate being incorrect, but I'm not afraid to make mistakes. That's where all my learning comes from, which is why I understand logic based subjects like maths and physics much faster than others. Maybe private schools and the like seek out students that are motivated to better themselves, and hence the statement that Drongoski made about top students at private schools.

Oh yeah, I just thought of something else. My school really limits your choice in subject selection, for example, English Advanced is compulsory (currently which I am very sick of right now). We also don't have courses like Senior Science or other obscure courses like that. And to top it off, we're only allowed to do IT and.... crap I forgot the name... Finance (or something along those lines) for TAFE courses as the others don't count towards your ATAR.

 

[aimeme]

No - that's not a fact. Most of the top students come from the top selective schools - in the solid courses like MX1, MX2, Chemistry, Economics, . . . . Light-weight courses like Gen Maths, SOR, Visual Arts, Macedonian Continuers, Cambodian, Aboriginal Studies etc - don't really rate imo.

Haha! You are SO right. you don't even understand :L you're not given the option to do standard english, 1 unit or low scaling subjects at some schools. You have to do open high school if you want to, and the head teachers high recommend against it. But in the end, no one really does choose those subjects.

 

[LightXT]

The top selective schools require the highest entrance marks, meaning there is always a competitive candidature. Also, the mainly azn population these schools manage to sustain high levels of efficiency and generate strong internal competition. Despite the seemingly high levels of protectionism within the school (economy), they have a very competitive cohort (product) which results in increased marks (profits).

We don't have superior teachers. No one cares about the teaching, tbh. It's the high levels of competition and motivation that see us doing so well academically. And the fact that low scaling subjects aren't offered at these schools...General Maths and Standard English are looked down upon.
117 doing 4U Maths at my school. 110ish doing Phys and Chem. 210 doing English Advanced. If you don't do 4U, you're not considered adept at Maths. It's a minimum benchmark, not the highest level. The high number of E4s/B6s (60ish in 4U last year) ensure that these selective schools sit comfortably at the top of the academic rankings annually, with no real competiton from any private or non selective schools, with the notable exception of Grammar.
It's no surprise that a school like Ruse has a median ATAR of 99.35.

tl;dr ---------> Intense competition among academically gifted students and high scaling subjects is what ensures selective schools (the top ones, at any rate) stay at the top.

Source : Read my sig. Inside info : P

 

[LoveHateSchool]

^117 doing 4U, numbers like that make my head spin. 210 in English Advanced, big cohort (cause obvs noone does standard).

When you're in a selective school, at least you could see the state competition where I can only imagine...though I actually have a few competitors in my own school to be scared of in the HSC. I happen to have at least one in all my classes.

 

[Drongoski]

I go to a private school and we do absolutely terrible
looks like my career and course in economics doesn't look so promising after all..

Which school is this?

 

[crimson_delight]

I think it's more selective schools that rank higher, than private schools or Catholic schools. I mean, I for one go to an Independent Catholic girls' school, yet we do so shit in the HSC. I mean, the school was so happy that ten students (out of 70) received an ATAR above 85 or something. :/ It's a bit worrying if they think that's amazing ... I'm a bit concerned if the school's going to lower our grade's rank, but oh well. It doesn't matter, in the end, what school you go to (unless, of course, you go to James Rousse), but it really is up to the individual student to achieve what they want to achieve.
That is all, cheerio.

 

[krnofdrg]

Public schools tend to perform overall worser then the better off catholic/private/selective schools . We just have a more proportional amount of students who don't participate well or put enough effort into work loads or either they don't value the HSC much. My schools ranked in the early 200's , we had about 10-20 who got over 90 ATAR from about 120-140 kids .
Selectives/catholic/ private school students tend to put tremendous amounts of effort and workloads into thats why they obviousily get the better marks and reputation.

 

[Haza94]

It all comes down to the students in the end.

A richer school sure may be able to provide better resources, to help their students, but if your lazy, no amount of textbooks can really help you

Point in case, if you get a smart and driven kid, who has to go to the local library to get internet, or lives in a rural area and has to travel 3 hours to school, he/she can do very good, you just have to put the hard yards in

In my case, i go to a catholic systemic school, we're well off, but we still have drop-outs, and super-freak nerds

 

[LoveHateSchool]

I think people are forgetting Selective schools are public schools

I hope to get a good ATAR just so I can be yet another example of people achieving good results in the HSC at public, regional comprehensives and more importantly, show that intelligence is not confined to selectives, exclusive grammar/private or North Shore public schools.

Or you know quietly shrink away when my ATAR is not good

 

[LightXT]

Another reason that selective schools get the high marks is because once a student knows their internal rank, they can easily gauge how much effort they need to put in order to attain a particular ATAR. For example, I know that if I maintain my study standard, I'll probably maintain my rank (54th) and attain my principal's estimated ATAR (98.4).
Other schools don't have this benefit as their marks tend to be somewhat inconsistent. The students don't know how much effort is required for their target ATAR. Here, since around 40 get 99+ and the median is somewhere around 95 each year, we estimate ATARs (accurately) through our internal ranks.

 

[slyhunter]

When I first saw the thread title, I thought of captain obvious.

Wonder why.

 

[b33g_boss]

Well his name is Vinh, dead give-away.

lol wut? ohexploitable is a boy, and is azn??

 

[Omnipotence]

No shit.

 

[LightXT]

When I first saw the thread title, I thought of captain obvious.

Wonder why.

Hmmm...obvious statement is obvious.

 

[slyhunter]

You share my sentiment, it seems

 

[kfnmpah]

To start with, is there the studies to prove this statement true?

there was a longitudinal study done at 30 schools in newcastle (by wendy elsworth and a coule of other education phd's) examining the effects of economic status etc on grades and it determined that economic status, ethnicity etc had a huge impact on results, but it also showed that raising your expectations of the 'poor' and 'dumb' students and teachng them the same way you would teach a 'rich' or 'smart' class resulted in the 'poor' students' results being the same, in some circumstances higher than the 'rich' students.
So, yeah... it does make a difference, and it's up to teachers to change their teaching strategies to help motivate these kids because they're probably just products of their environment... i dunno.

EDIT: up to teachers and parents to raise expectations of their kids. I'm sick of all this 'school is to prepare children for the workforce' bullshit. School isn't about being taught how to catch a bus. school is an academic place. Also, students must want to learn, but this also relates back to expectations placed upon them.

 

[kfnmpah]

Public schools tend to perform overall worser then the better off catholic/private/selective schools . We just have a more proportional amount of students who don't participate well or put enough effort into work loads or either they don't value the HSC much. My schools ranked in the early 200's , we had about 10-20 who got over 90 ATAR from about 120-140 kids .
Selectives/catholic/ private school students tend to put tremendous amounts of effort and workloads into thats why they obviousily get the better marks and reputation.

strong grammar is strong.
/sarcasm.