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Aussies arrested for downloading child rape vid (2 Viewers)

I Study Hard

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So the government's job is to define what is pleasure and then go out and regulate it? And by regulation i mean coerce the populous to come in line with the state bureaucracy's definition of what is "pleasure"? This is tyranny.


Dont know to laugh or cry.
I think the point is that why else, other then for pleasure, would these men be downloading this video?
The government is not defining it.
The government is simply trying to stop the spread of material of this nature.
 

I Study Hard

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sam04u made a good point, laws do basically reflect the changing veiws of society. Society as a whole seems to think it is wrong and that is why there are laws in place. Laws do not work unless there are a majority of people who are willing to obey the rules?

zimmerman8k - Are you trying to justify the watching of brutal child sex tapes? Its not a horror movie that you watch because you are "curious or fascinated" with things of this nature. Its real life. Thats not an actress. Its a child who is being forced to have sex. She's only 8.
~Do you really think its okay to let people do this?
 

sam04u

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Couldn't this be equally true of some people that look at child porn?
Yes, and in such cases it would be seen as a lesser crime. I would propose some form of counselling to prevent repeat offenses. If there are repeat offenses though there should be punishment. ie; imprisonment

If we are going to prosecute thought crime, as you admit this is, how do you determine if a thought crime has been committed, since we don't really know what each offender was actually thinking, or their motivation for looking at certain content.
Let them make their case.
 

staticsiscool

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So the government's job is to define what is pleasure and then go out and regulate it? And by regulation i mean coerce the populous to come in line with the state bureaucracy's definition of what is "pleasure"? This is tyranny.


Dont know to laugh or cry.
sup i herd u condone the rape of small children for pleasure etc
 

I Study Hard

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No. I am not trying to justify it. I think it is morally unjustifiable. But I do not think that everything that is morally wrong, should be illegal.

I am not pro-child porn, just like I am not pro-drugs. I simply believe that the current laws regulating these things do more harm than good.

I think it is a waste of time and resources to track down, prosecute and lock up people who haven't hurt anyone.
But isn't that the basis for most laws?
It is illegal because society thinks its wrong?
By they way - Just so you know, i wasn't trying to have a go at you.
 

I Study Hard

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Well no. Morality is not a good enough guide to law making. Many Australians believe that sex outside of marriage is morally wrong, but I'm sure you can see the problems that enshrining this in law would cause.

I believe a cost-benefit or utilitarian approach should be used. So the question should be; will this law do more good than harm?
Well, to a certain extent it will influence the law.
I think its a good thing that they're dedicating themselves to finding these people and letting them know that its not okay to do this.
I think personal opinion will vary greatly on this issue though.
 

Freedom_

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Don't get your knickers in a bunch. Society controls government, not vice versa. So therefore society as a whole has that ability yes.
Hahaha. No.
Awesome. I didn't know I supported tyranny. brb oppressing the masses. Oh wait the masses would rather lynch these creeps. It's me, the tyrant who keeps the masses in check. The same masses who would otherwise put these creeps heads on sticks as a punishment. The tyrant who preserves society.
I don't understand you. Obviously with an avatar like yours one would naturally assume that you by definition are against freedom yet to a certain extent you advocate & undertone the notion that you uphold the idea of individual liberty.

Now, lets get back on topic.
we have two issues here.
1. The child being raped by person A.
2. Person B watching the child being raped by person A on a PC.
These are both different issues.

Since sex is in its own unique way a private aspect of an individuals life, in should be of no interest or tolerable act that the government regulate or legislate any sort of sexual behaviour. Now, lets look at the issue of the girl being raped. Violent act such as this, of course are classed as crime because an act of violence and non-consensual sex has been performed on another person. A clear violation of this girls natural rights.

Lets begin to look at the issue of watching this crime.
Your position tends to hold that watching the child being raped is a crime because its degrading and immoral and all that yada yada and therefore should be outlawed. Yet you don't even deal with the crucial point: that the good, bad, or indifferent consequences of watching this clip, while perhaps an interesting problem in its own right, is completely irrelevant to the question of whether or not it should be outlawed. Person B has in no way advocated, been part of raping this girl.
It is not the business of any bureaucrat or anyone in position of power to uphold what is morally correct of incorrect.This is for each individual to decide for himself.

If the governmnet must protect the rights of the individuals involved it is the rights of the girl. Her rights have been violated, her body was raped, and therefore person A will be punished because of the above.

Individuals comprise society. There is no society without individuals.
I miss worded that sentence.
Why should the rights of society supersede the rights of an individual? This is an error in social theory where you treat society as if its an actually existing entity. In fact, why is society even treated as a superior figure with overriding rights of its own? epic failure.
I think the point is that why else, other then for pleasure, would these men be downloading this video?
The government is not defining it.
The government is simply trying to stop the spread of material of this nature.
see above.
 
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Freedom_

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I believe a cost-benefit or utilitarian approach should be used. So the question should be; will this law do more good than harm?
Again, hypothetically speaking, if it is believed that these laws do more good than harm the government will then make and enforce a social decision.

Not only would these proposals grant gigantic amount of bureaucratic power to the government in the name of safeguarding "society", this by far is a contradiction to the idea of freedom and defending the rights of individuals.
 
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sam04u

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cbf responding

some individual liberty is lost to form society. otherwise vigilantism would prevail at the expense of society. that is to say if individuals will get their way unless pacified with a semblance of justice ie; not real justice which is eye for an eye.

individuals do not like shady fucks who like to watch 8 year olds get raped
 

Ashabella

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Hahaha. No.


I don't understand you. Obviously with an avatar like yours one would naturally assume that you by definition are against freedom yet to a certain extent you advocate & undertone the notion that you uphold the idea of individual liberty.

Now, lets get back on topic.
we have two issues here.
1. The child being raped by person A.
2. Person B watching the child being raped by person A on a PC.
These are both different issues.

Since sex is in its own unique way a private aspect of an individuals life, in should be of no interest or tolerable act that the government regulate or legislate any sort of sexual behaviour. Now, lets look at the issue of the girl being raped. Violent act such as this, of course are classed as crime because an act of violence and non-consensual sex has been performed on another person. A clear violation of this girls natural rights.

Lets begin to look at the issue of watching this crime.
Your position tends to hold that watching the child being raped is a crime because its degrading and immoral and all that yada yada and therefore should be outlawed. Yet you don't even deal with the crucial point: that the good, bad, or indifferent consequences of watching this clip, while perhaps an interesting problem in its own right, is completely irrelevant to the question of whether or not it should be outlawed. Person B has in no way advocated, been part of raping this girl.
It is not the business of any bureaucrat or anyone in position of power to uphold what is morally correct of incorrect.This is for each individual to decide for himself.

If the governmnet must protect the rights of the individuals involved it is the rights of the girl. Her rights have been violated, her body was raped, and therefore person A will be punished because of the above.


I miss worded that sentence.
Why should the rights of society supersede the rights of an individual? This is an error in social theory where you treat society as if its an actually existing entity. In fact, why is society even treated as a superior figure with overriding rights of its own? epic failure.

see above.



Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the whole basis of your argument is working on the belief that we have a right to 'Freedom of information'.

I am also wondering if you see prohibiting the use of child porn as an issue that is restrictive to the point of being oppressive and somewhat totalitarian?

I have to say, that while I see your point, and the angle from which you are approaching this issue, I do not agree with it. Even though I would do so perhaps not so enthusiastically, I would never advocate the banning of normal, consensual 'adult porn', because I believe that that would be a breach of our right to freedom of information.

When it comes to child porn however, I believe laws should be in place to prohibit usage. The reason for this is because by viewing the material, a person is knowingly with little concern or care, breaching someone else's right to privacy, dignity, respect and development.

Ask yourself this:

Should it be a crime to sit and watch (in person) someone rape a person, or worse still, a child?

Wouldn't that in theory be classified as 'sexual assault in the second degree'. Aren't you an accessory, then? Don't you have a responsibility - both morally and legally - to report that crime? And, if you sit and watch it and get off on it, isn't that considered sexual abuse too? It's certainly an 'unwanted act of a sexual nature that includes; inappropriate sexual conduct with a minor'. It is, by definition, sexual assault and, most specifically, perversion.

AND, how is that different to watching someone do this to a child (or any person) via a different medium?

By casting your eyes upon child porn, and thus the carrying out of sexual assault - whether it be rape, inappropriate touching, etc - you are committing an offence. You are depriving a child of their right to be protected, of their right to develop in a wholesome way, of their right to privacy, of their right to be treated with dignity and respect, as well as numerous other rights.

It is most certainly NOT a victimless crime either. It is simply ludicrous to suggest that downloading child porn does not stimulate and support the child porn industry. It clearly does, and you must be living under a rock if you attempt to deny that.

This is a very serious crime.
These laws are not about depriving us of our right to freedom of information, nor are they oppressing us or controlling us to a degree that is unnecessary, they are simply working towards a goal, and that goal is to shut down the child porn industry. Or, at the least cause it to experience a steady decline. The closure of the child porn industry is about stopping serious criminal offences against children from being supported, encouraged, funded and made worse by a greater invasion of a child's rights.

Those suggesting that it should be legal are not looking at the bigger picture. They are being insensitive and not taking into consideration the rights of people or children to be safe, respected and, to be awarded dignity, respect and privacy.

I urge those people to look at this issue with a little more compassion and humanness.
 

adamcg

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Reading this thread I was beginning to think that no-one had a shed of sense, reason or humanity...

thank you ashabella!
 

steeez

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I was browsing 4chan's /b/ yesterday and apparently it was originally posted there from a Russian site, which led to so many people getting arrested. /b/ has so many users at one time that they probably wouldn't have thought anything of the video and just watched it.
In fact, I find it highly laughable that your username is Epic Fail Guy and you're commenting on how sick the video is haha.
But nah, there is alot of sick people on that site.. along with ALOT of funny shit.
 

WibbleWonger

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Isn't Russia supposed to be authoritarian/a police state? Yet most of the bad shit on the internet comes from there, malware, child porn, spam etc.
 

youngminii

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When it comes to child porn however, I believe laws should be in place to prohibit usage. The reason for this is because by viewing the material, a person is knowingly with little concern or care, breaching someone else's right to privacy, dignity, respect and development.
The extent of the child's privacy, dignity etc. etc. is up to their guardian. According to the law, the guardian knows best for the child and is required to make all decisions for the child.
Ask yourself this:

Should it be a crime to sit and watch (in person) someone rape a person, or worse still, a child?
No. Sure, it's fucked up and morally wrong, but it shouldn't be a crime. Why should I be punished just 'cause I watched someone rape someone else? Sure, I witnessed a crime. Lots of people witness crimes, lots more see them in videos. I'm sure you'd find thousands of crimes being committed on youtube.

Wouldn't that in theory be classified as 'sexual assault in the second degree'. Aren't you an accessory, then? Don't you have a responsibility - both morally and legally - to report that crime?
How the hell would I be an accessory? I watched it happen, so what? Where does it say in the law that I am required to report a crime?
And, if you sit and watch it and get off on it, isn't that considered sexual buse too?
No, it is not abuse. I did not make the victim feel anything in any direct way, as they would never know that I even watched the video. Sure if I went up to the person and made her feel like shit, it would be considered abuse.
It's certainly an 'unwanted act of a sexual nature that includes; inappropriate sexual conduct with a minor'. It is, by definition, sexual assault and, most specifically, perversion.
Keyword: with
If I had watched the video, I certainly didn't have any sexual conduct with the minor. No it is not assault. Sure, it's perversed, so what? That wouldn't get me jailed, or even charged.

By casting your eyes upon child porn, and thus the carrying out of sexual assault - whether it be rape, inappropriate touching, etc - you are committing an offence. You are depriving a child of their right to be protected, of their right to develop in a wholesome way, of their right to privacy, of their right to be treated with dignity and respect, as well as numerous other rights.
Their rights belong to their guardian. If their guardian says it's okay, then I suppose it's okay. Even if their guardian didn't, I'm not depriving the child of their rights. The person who raped the child is. It's not my fault that the child's face wasn't blurred.
It is most certainly NOT a victimless crime either. It is simply ludicrous to suggest that downloading child porn does not stimulate and support the child porn industry. It clearly does, and you must be living under a rock if you attempt to deny that.
You must be a vegetarian. "Eating meat encourages people to kill animals. If I don't eat meat, people won't kill animals!"

This is a very serious crime.
These laws are not about depriving us of our right to freedom of information, nor are they oppressing us or controlling us to a degree that is unnecessary, they are simply working towards a goal, and that goal is to shut down the child porn industry. Or, at the least cause it to experience a steady decline. The closure of the child porn industry is about stopping serious criminal offences against children from being supported, encouraged, funded and made worse by a greater invasion of a child's rights.
Do you really think that if people stopped watching child porn, child abuse would disappear?
By that logic, maybe some sick fuck longs for child porn. Maybe one day, there's no more child porn left. What's he going to do? Oh I know, he'll go rape and molest a real child.
That isn't my argument to legalise child porn, but that's to counter your (ludicrous) belief that child porn encourages criminal offences against children.


What I (and many others in this thread) are trying to say is that child pornography is morally despicable. However, that doesn't give the government the right to arrest anyone who chooses to view it. What we watch is up to us, even if it may be disgusting.
 
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izzy88

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The extent of the child's privacy, dignity etc. etc. is up to their guardian. According to the law, the guardian knows best for the child and is required to make all decisions for the child.

Their rights belong to their guardian. If their guardian says it's okay, then I suppose it's okay.
the guardian of the child does not obviously always know what is best for the child- nor do their 'rights' belong to their guardian to chose what they will follow and what they will not. Australia and the world (through the UN) have set up basic human rights and rights of the child which give all children basic human rights- if the guardian of the child says 'oh well i'm not going to give my child that right' it does not make it ok or legal.

(sorry i'm not entirely sure where this fits into this thread topic but i'm a bit confused about the argument you're making re. rights of the child and guardians.)
 

sam04u

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I was browsing 4chan's /b/ yesterday and apparently it was originally posted there from a Russian site, which led to so many people getting arrested. /b/ has so many users at one time that they probably wouldn't have thought anything of the video and just watched it.
In fact, I find it highly laughable that your username is Epic Fail Guy and you're commenting on how sick the video is haha.
But nah, there is alot of sick people on that site.. along with ALOT of funny shit.
cool story bro

the party van actually does exist. who knew?
 

EpicFailGuy

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I was browsing 4chan's /b/ yesterday and apparently it was originally posted there from a Russian site, which led to so many people getting arrested. /b/ has so many users at one time that they probably wouldn't have thought anything of the video and just watched it.
In fact, I find it highly laughable that your username is Epic Fail Guy and you're commenting on how sick the video is haha.
But nah, there is alot of sick people on that site.. along with ALOT of funny shit.
wtf guy....

what has my name got to do with watching an 8 year old get raped.
 

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