Attention all USyders - VSU Information (1 Viewer)

[walrusbear]

i get you
you believe in majoritarianism?

 

[walrusbear]

what religious groups have too much sway? do you mean in a political or social sense? because you can't dictate the latter.
i'm not really sure what your issues with 'intellectuals' and 'feminists' on campus really means but sounds like you are just selective for no reason. students should be assisted but not young families?? condemning teenage pregnancy doesn't really achieve anything. society as a whole has nothing to lose by encouraging education

 

[what971]

so your argument is that people with children shouldn't be financially assisted by the community? especially in instances of providing education

other causes beneficial to students aren't really under the microscope here. if they are beneficial to students then naturally the union would focus on them??

Children and the expensive fees of childcare aside, I don't see how the Union can possibly justify its compulsory Union fee system. Not only has elections within the Union been plagued by low turnouts (showing lack of student participation and a feeling of antipathy towards the Union), the so-called subsidies that our compulsory fees pay for are hardly felt (see above for food debate). The only sane argument I've heard so far is that these Union fees are like taxes - and therefore should be allowed. This of course, is also a load of ****, as only Federal and State Governments should have the ability to collect taxes for public services, the fact remains, NO PRIVATE INSTITUTION should have the right to force people to pay for something they feel that they do not need.

So in conclusion, give me back my $302 you ****.

 

[GoodSirLancelot]

Could someone tell me something the USU actually does that benefits students?

 

[Phanatical]

I attended a special SRC Community Meeting (in reality a normal SRC meeting, sans everybody) today, and the three goals their President set out as their mission are:

1) Casework
2) Campaigns and Activism
2) Publications
with all other goals as less important, more expendable.

I also learnt that their "small" activism budget is in excess of $100000, or the equivalent of the entire Arts budget of the Union. Of course, since they're capable of spending $30000 in phone calls in a single year, $100000 might not seem that big to them.

 

[what971]

1) Casework
2) Campaigns and Activism
2) Publications

No. Seriously. What the hell is that going to do for us?

 

[Phanatical]

How the hell should I know? I've only been endlessly criticising the SRC for three years. With the exception of "Casework", it's obvious the SRC has lost the proverbial plot. I have no confidence in our so-called "elected" representatives, and I call upon all students to join the ISA's call for the SRC to immediately resign.

 

[snakeoils]

A small point to Malfoy:

If you axe funded childcare, then how would you feel if young mothers/fathers started bringing their children to lectures and tutorials? I'm sure you'd complain a little more then.

 

[withoutaface]

These children are not enrolled in the course, and as such should not be permitted in the tutorials.

 

[walrusbear]

Education - yes. Blindly paying out welfare and baby bonuses? NO FUCKING WAY. I'd love to see better sex ed/more funding of public education/more funding of health for the next generation, though I don't plan to ever have kids. I think paying people for breeding is revolting, at whatever age, but doubly bad when it's teenagers who aren't emotionally, physically or financially ready to do it. If you were to fund them by providing parenting classes or health initiatives or something... but I don't much like the idea of throwing money around that can be spent on just ANYTHING, especially when you hear so much about people buying iPods or TVs with the baby bonus money. And education helps break the cycle of poverty so I'd rather fund that than foster generational dependence on welfare. An educated society benefits everyone.

i wasn't talking about 'baby bonuses' (a Liberal Party initiative i disagree with). providing subsidised child care is assisting young parents get an education so judging from your last statements you should be happy with it.

 

[walrusbear]

so we should be making it as hard as possible for young parents because having children is a mistake?

 

[Phanatical]

I hate calling having children a "mistake". But, quite frankly, it's not fair for students to sacrifice their hard-earned earnings so that a few parents who can afford not to work anyway can put their kids into childcare.

 

[walrusbear]

everyone here has lost the plot
i don't have the exact figures but i'm willing to bet it costs very little if everyone contributes money. i'm not averse to the university paying for the service but i don't see it happening.
what is it with retarded analogies on this board? obviously alcoholism and child rearing is incomparable in this context. so just don't bother, it doesn't prove anything.

 

[walrusbear]

Excuse me? You are arguing that they have an external social factor that impacts on their ability to undertake tertiary study at the University of Sydney.

So what exactly is the quantitative difference between having a child and being alcoholic in an educational context?

there is no reason to link social services assisting alcoholism to campus because they aren't necessarily linked to attending university. i'm fine with taxes paying for subsidising this sort of help because alcoholism can affect anyone.
a childcare on campus is aimed toward assisting parents attending university by having care nearby. as the childcare is geared toward parents at university it makes sense to have it subsidised by a student union.

even if the analogy weren't poor, and if alcoholism was a problem for students i'd be all for the union supporting assistance. in fact, doesn't the union or src already spend money on drug education?
the only point your making is that it is high treason, in your mind, for someone to be contributing to the benefit of others - you're selfish.

 

[walrusbear]

Personally, I think you are missing the point. Not EVERYONE should have to contribute money for that kind of lifestyle choice. And yes, having kids is a choice. As I said, it's not like students are rich, generally speaking. Up until I got my second job a couple of weeks ago, student fees were TWELVE WEEKS of my income. I'm not kidding - when there's not enough shifts to go around and you end up with one a week, money is really tight. Why the hell should I - or anyone else in a similar situation - pay for someone else's childcare when they weren't responsible enough to plan for it themselves (organising, funding, etc)?

no one here is debating the high prices of student fees - at sydney uni they are obviously too high. you're distracting by suggesting that contributing to a form of childcare is bankrupting you, which i'm sure is incorrect (can someone who has stats on this sort of thing contribute?? waf?? how much does each student pay for childcare??). however overpriced fees are and inefficient the union is presently, the principles of USU are far more sound than user pay.

 

[walrusbear]

But the reason the fees ARE so overpriced is because unnecessary things like childcare - which should be the PARENT'S responsibility - are being funded. Use USU to fund the basics, and the things which benefit everybody, and cut the costs to about 1/3 of what they are. $100 a semester won't bankrupt anyone. $300 is a much more significant chunk of money. That was my original point.

i still disagree and think childcare should be included in the fees
but good to see you agree with USU in principle

 

[ujuphleg]

VSU - My Two Cents

I just thought I'd make this post here - in the main I try and stay out of these debates as far as possible because its my belief that as a moderator, I should be fairly impartial and only assist the discussion rather than participate. It is important though that people who are also reading this debate see as many sides of the opinion as possible so I'd like to add my voice to what I think is a very important issue.

I'll be the first to admit - When I first heard about VSU I thought it was a terrible thing. I thought that it really would mean the death of a lot of things we love about uni. And to a certain extent, if the current situation prevails it probably will.

But after a year at uni, and seeing the way the Union/SRC is run, I no longer oppose VSU as vehemently as I did to begin with. There are many things wrong with our student union - corruption, wastage, incompetence and from what I can see, an overwhelming blindness of power. Our money (be it that we earn, or that our parents pay) for Union fees, are controlled by a small, select group of people who do not represent the best interests of the students. They are (in the main) egotisical and seek these offices only to further their own overinflated opinions of themself. In the main, they are out of touch with what is required of the average student in terms of academic, social and financial pressures. A little background on a few of our main players:

- Rose Jackson is the daughter of Liz Jackson from Media Watch. She was our President of the SRC last year and is the girlfriend of Felix Eldridge, the President of the National Union of Students for 2005. Both come from, perhaps not necessarily extremely wealthy, but certainly comfortable backgrounds. There was, almost certainly, a certain number of connections forged, to get her into the position that she is now currently holding (which is, for the record, the Undergraduate Representative for the University of Sydney's Senate and the President of the National Union of Students) I know there will be people here who will disagree that Rose's connection to Felix have assisted in anyway shape or form, but there certainly does seem to be a very strong link. I will concede though that the fact her mum is famous has little to no impact upon her reputation as a student politician

- Michael Janda (last years SRC Education Officer) is a scholarship reciepient from the Faculty of Economics and Business. Again, bleeting on about how hard it is being a University student is just hypocritical. The SRC's 2005 Queer Offficer Angus McFarland was also a scholarship recipient.

- Amit Singh is rumoured to have been the ex-boyfriend of last years Union President, Sam Crosby. In this situation, it is a well known fact that Amit holds the current Union Presidency based largely upon his political connections within the ALP Club (the Right-Wing Faction of the Labor Party on Campus)


Most of the people who run the SRC/Union are Law students, usually fairly smart (as you would have to be to acheive the requisite UAI) Many of them have NO IDEA about some of the things you are talking about here - that is, working hard to save money for fees, or the merits (or not) of being a single parent. They have ideals yes. They have beliefs too, yes of course. They want to petition about all that is bad in the world - maltreated refugees, disrespect of womens reproductive rights, discrimmination against women, queers, immigrants and any minority group in existence.

I'm not pretending here to say that I understand the hardships of the average student - I'll be the first to admit that my life is comfortable and easy in comparison to those of some of my colleagues. Neither will I pretend to say that those causes I mentioned above are unworthy.

But it is not right that our money should be used for these causes if we don't want it to It doesn't matter if its $1. Student union money should not be spent in advancing the causes of others. It should be spent toward things in direct relation to students.

Since mid-last year, I was very enthusiastic about the idea of a cap on the amount of student fees, the ability to pay the fees in installments, and a segregation of the money so that students could pick and choose what they wanted to pay for - whether this be services, food, clubs n socs, childcare, arts funding, sports funding, amentities funding, legal care - WHATEVER. I also don't think that anyone in this thread is disagreeing that student unions are important

But reform has to come from within. Even if everything in my previous paragraph was somehow miraculously instated, we would never know whether money was actually being spent on amentities or on the latest protest because it comes down again to the egos and lack of transparency of the Union and its functionality.

I disagree with Andrew (Phanatical) on many counts. But I do agree that politics shouldn't have a place in the Union and that the united and ultimate goal, regardless of where you sit on the political spectrum, should be the betterment of the University by the students, for the students.

I don't agree that people who have children should be denied an education - and I do believe that providing childcare on campus is important. I just don't think that as much money should go towards it. Sport is important - we should all pay a little for it, as it fosters the image of our University in the public arena but each and every single one of us should NOT have to pay $144 out of our union fees for sport at USyd.

It is a matter of balance. It is a matter of consience. The Union is VERY important. We should do everything we can to keep it alive. But it is clear that USU was not the answer - but neither is VSU. A balance between what is right, and what is good and what is FEASIBLE needs to be struck and kept in check with students who are not merely politicians but are wholly commited to the cause of providing a fufilling and enriching environment on campus for all students.

 

[ujuphleg]

Oh and just finally, I know a lot of you in this forum are sick of hearing about USyds politics. For those of you who aren't however, and are interested in learning about the ins and outs of student politics at USyd, please, read Honi Soit each week and for a more comprehensive perspective, have a look at the Media Societys website, in particular, their News Digest at: http://digest.idmedia.org.au/

The Digests from last year will give you all a better idea of what and how the Union and the politics of it are shaped.

Enjoy!

 

[walrusbear]

a nice balanced post ujuphleg

nice to see you don't see the detriment of sport as a good thing

 

[transcendent]

i keep hearing about the Honi Soit and skimmed through it once or twice. is it really that great? i avoided it because i thought it was another publication furthering the rather useless women's and queer's agendas full of biased crap spouting from drama queens.