Soldiers are not heroes (6 Viewers)

[mirakon]

Have you met a single person from the Army who says the only goal they have is to kill people????

What do you think my previous post was about? My word, you have an awful memory

 

[Climactic]

Restart discussion please. This thread turned to shit.

 

[62396420]

What do you think my previous post was about? My word, you have an awful memory

So the guy you know at school that wanted to join the army, who has not even gotten into the Army yet is indicative of the entire Army?

Just asking!

 

[Azure]

I don't think that's the implication mirakon is trying to make, but rather that is the attitude of some people attempting to join the army.

 

[62396420]

I don't think that's the implication mirakon is trying to make, but rather that is the attitude of some people attempting to join the army.

That is exactly why the Army has psych screenings and a rigorous application process to go through in order to join. It really is a non issue, no one joins the Army to 'kill'...

 

[Azure]

That is exactly why the Army has psych screenings and a rigorous application process to go through in order to join. It really is a non issue, no one joins the Army to 'kill'...

Of course some people do. It would be foolish to pretend otherwise.

 

[Cianyx]

It really is a non issue, no one joins the Army to 'kill'...

Can you provide evidence to back this up?

 

[Jaundice]

[/B]

Of course some people do. It would be foolish to pretend otherwise.

No! Everyone joins the army to protect their country and their families. They are good god fearing people. How dare you suggest otherwise! These men fight to protect us, they die protecting us. They are fighting for whats right and they are fighting the war against terrorism.

 

[62396420]

[/B]

Of course some people do. It would be foolish to pretend otherwise.

If some people did, it would not be the sole motivator behind joining. Once they are in the LOAC the ROE and the deployment schedules would most likely stop them realising their dream anyway.

 

[62396420]

No! Everyone joins the army to protect their country and their families. They are good god fearing people. How dare you suggest otherwise! These men fight to protect us, they die protecting us. They are fighting for whats right and they are fighting the war against terrorism.

You are a retard. Who has ignored my questions from earlier. Stop trying to score cheap shots.

 

[Jaundice]

You are a retard.

You obviously haven't heard of september 11.

 

[62396420]

Can you provide evidence to back this up?

Simple, go into DFR, say you want to join to kill and see how far it gets you.

Applicants are screeened and booted if found to be unsuitable. That is a fact.

 

[Cianyx]

http://militarytimes.com/static/projects/pages/ngic_gangs.pdf

(U) Gang-related activity in the US military is increasing and poses a threat to law
enforcement officials and national security. Members of nearly every major street gang
have been identified on both domestic and international military installations. Although
most prevalent in the Army, the Army Reserves, and the National Guard, gang activity is
pervasive throughout all branches of the military and across most ranks, but is most
common among the junior enlisted ranks. The extent of gang presence in the armed
services is often difficult to determine since many enlisted gang members conceal their
gang affiliation and military authorities may not recognize gang affiliation or may be
inclined not to report such incidences. The military enlistment of gang members could
ultimately lead to the worldwide expansion of US-based gangs.
• (U) Gang members may enlist in the military to escape their current environment or gang
lifestyle. Some gang members may also enlist to receive weapons, combat, and convoy
support training; to obtain access to weapons and explosives; or as an alternative to
incarceration. Upon discharge, they may employ their military training against law
enforcement officials and rival gang members. Such military training could ultimately
result in more organized, sophisticated, and deadly gangs, as well as an increase in deadly
assaults on law enforcement officers.
• (U) Gang membership in the armed forces can disrupt good order and discipline, increase
criminal activity on and off military installations, and compromise installation security
and force protection. Gang incidents involving active-duty personnel on or near US
military bases nationwide include drive-by shootings, assaults, robberies, drug
distribution, weapons violations, domestic disturbances, vandalism, extortion, and money
laundering. Gangs have also been known to use active-duty service members to
distribute their drugs.
• (U) Military-trained gang members also present an emerging threat to law enforcement
officers patrolling the streets of US cities. Both current and former gang-affiliated
soldiers transfer their acquired military training and knowledge back to the community
and employ them against law enforcement officers, who are typically not trained to
engage gangsters with military expertise.
• (U) Gang members have been known to enlist in the military by failing to report past
criminal convictions or by using fraudulent documents. Some applicants enter the
criminal justice system as juveniles and their criminal records are sealed and unavailable
to recruiters performing criminal background investigations. Many military recruiters are
not properly trained to recognize gang affiliation and unknowingly recruit gang members,
particularly if the applicant has no criminal record or visible tattoos.
• (U) Gang members commonly target dependent children of military personnel for
recruitment. Military children are considered potential candidates for gang membership
because the transient nature of their families often makes them feel isolated, vulnerable,
and in need of companionship. Dependents of service members may be involved in drug distribution and assaults both on and off of military bases. Lax security at open
installations may facilitate recruitment by allowing civilian gang members to access the
base and interact with military personnel and their children.
• (U) While allowing gang members to serve in the military may temporarily increase
recruiting numbers, US communities may ultimately have to contend with disruption and
violence resulting from military-trained gang members on the streets of US cities.
Furthermore, most gang members have been pre-indoctrinated into the gang lifestyle and
maintain an allegiance to their gang. This could ultimately jeopardize the safety of other
military members and impede gang-affiliated soldiers’ ability to act in the best interest of
their country.

 

[Azure]

If some people did, it would not be the sole motivator behind joining. Once they are in the LOAC the ROE and the deployment schedules would most likely stop them realising their dream anyway.

This is just a subjective statement which cannot be reinforced with evidence to be honest. A quick search on YouTube will show you US soldiers enjoying blowing up Iraqis.

 

[Jaundice]

Simple, go into DFR, say you want to join to kill and see how far it gets you.

Applicants are screeened and booted if found to be unsuitable. That is a fact.

Does not mean they cant manipulate the test.

 

[62396420]

http://militarytimes.com/static/projects/pages/ngic_gangs.pdf

Are we talking about the Australian Defense Force, or the American Military?

They are two completely different organizations that aren't really comparable.

 

[62396420]

This is just a subjective statement which cannot be reinforced with evidence to be honest. A quick search on YouTube will show you US soldiers enjoying blowing up Iraqis.

It can be backed up with evidence. Every incident involving injuries or fatalities that the ADF is involved in is subjected to an investigation. Soldiers from the ADF are currently facing charges over allegations that they acted improperly on duty.

Soldiers are held accountable for their actions by the ADF and the Australian Government.

 

[Cianyx]

Both systems can easily become exploited for the purposes of gang related activity
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...d-to-bikie-gangs/story-e6frg6nf-1111112868776

 

[Azure]

This is a strawman argument to some extent because this thread was not intended to solely discuss the intentions of the ADF, but soldiers in general. None the less, I will take the bait because it is already blatantly obvious that there is no way every single soldier in the world joins the army for the right reason.

It can be backed up with evidence. Every incident involving injuries or fatalities that the ADF is involved in is subjected to an investigation. Soldiers from the ADF are currently facing charges over allegations that they acted improperly on duty.

Soldiers are held accountable for their actions by the ADF and the Australian Government.

This is another strawman because we're not making reference to soldiers engaging in misbehaviour but actually soldiers engaging in a duty they are paid to perform by the state. The point that was attempting to be made is that some soldiers enjoy killing and have consequently joined the army to do so. Most killing takes place in the parameters of combat where no wrong doing by the army’s' standard has been committed.

 

[62396420]

This is a strawman argument to some extent because this thread was not intended to solely discuss the intentions of the ADF, but soldiers in general. None the less, I will take the bait because it is already blatantly obvious that there is no way every single soldier in the world joins the army for the right reason.



This is another strawman because we're not making reference to soldiers engaging in misbehaviour but actually soldiers engaging in a duty they are paid to perform by the state. The point that was attempting to be made is that some soldiers enjoy killing and have consequently joined the army to do so. Most killing takes place in the parameters of combat where no wrong doing by the army’s' standard has been committed.

I honestly think you would struggle to find soldiers that enjoy killing.

We are essentially agreeing, not all soldiers are heroes. Equally not all soldiers are baby killing torture machines as has been made out by some in this thread.

the ADF employs over 50000 full time personell, out of that 50000 it is reasonable to assume that a cross section of society is represented. This includes thiefs, rapists, murderers and any other crime that you could reasonably expect to find in the Civlian world.

I can tell you this though, if a soldier returned from a contact talking about how much he enjoys killing and wants to chalk up a few more he would be in the Army for not very much longer. It is not an attitude that the Army Culture accepts.