Students Against Scaling - Post Here! (2 Viewers)

James Cos · Jun 10, 2009

Schoey93 said:
Because Student A achieved only an average School-based Assessment Mark, and was ranked twentieth from thirty-four students, they receive th twentieth best HSC exam mark achieved by a member of one of the two Biology classes at their educational institution (or school/TAFE).

Wrong again.

The mean moderated assessment mark is always equal to the mean exam mark of the school cohort, as are the max and the min. But you do not receive the actual exam mark of the n-th ranked person as your assessment mark.

The moderated assessment mark reflects not only the ranks, but the relative differences in initial school assessment marks. So no-one is disadvantaged; the only thing that has happened is that initial school assessment marks - which cannot be compared from school to school, are put on an equal footing for all schools.

Schoey93 said:
So Student A is disadvantaged for slipping up in say, two assessments, being ranked near the top in all other Biology assessments for their school, acing the exam and then... disadvantaged. She gets a mark of 78% rather than a mark = (75+94)/2 = 169/2 = 89.5 = 90.

So she drops from a Band 6 final HSC mark to an average Band 4 mark. Yes, so what? But this would have an adverse impact on her ATAR, forcing her to take the long road to get to her chosen career path or to work in odd jobs, which may leave her unsatisfied and unhappy throughout her life (unlikely yes, but at the very least, having missed out on admission to university courses, she might struggle financially to care for herself or burden her parents for some years).

So you think you should be able to slip up in the assessment mark, but not have it count against you? Then what's the point of assessment if it doesn't count!

This hypothetical student has slipped up in TWO assessments, and you complain that her mark will be lowered as a result. But what about people who do really well at school assessments, but messes up their HSC Exam? It works both ways - and this is why we get 50% from school, and 50% from exam, to make it fair for everyone.

Stop whingeing about the system just because you'll do shit. It's fair.

tommykins · Jun 10, 2009

Schoey93 said:
Yes, but moderation is still unfair CEM. Tell me how it isn't. The School-based Assessment mark a student receives in any NSW HSC subject is equal to the mark achieved in the HSC external assessment or exam that matches their rank.

E.g.

Student A achieves a School-based Assessment Mark of 75 in Biology.
Student A achieves 94 in the exam.

Because Student A achieved only an average School-based Assessment Mark, and was ranked twentieth from thirty-four students, they receive th twentieth best HSC exam mark achieved by a member of one of the two Biology classes at their educational institution (or school/TAFE).

heres where i tell you, stop whilst you're behind, you know nothing you clueless twat

Schoey93 · Jun 10, 2009

James.Cos - that personal attack was unnecessary. I am very capable of achieving an admirable ATAR, unless I'm just some retard whose whole life is a halucination, and all of the good marks I got did not actually exist. Maybe I'm just a brain in a vat of life-preserving fluid, hm?

I will not 'do shit', as you said, James.

Tommy - not true. I do know a lot of things, not everything, but quite a bit. And what I do know is that LAZARUS... a BoS user has actually suggested your assessment mark is equal to the exam mark of your rank. Ranked twenty, assessment mark = HSC external exam mark (twentieth best in your cohort).

Perhaps I misunderstood him, but this is the essence of my interpretation of what was typed by the moderator himself. If he is still active, and wishes to comment, any advice or links to appropriate information would be appreciated (either via BoS PM or in this thread).

And Tommy, don't tell me I know nothing. I am NOT a useless twat, far from it; please don't make value judgements based on my Internet persona. I am... I am a completely different person in the real world. This is just virtual (non-existent), this forum is just a bunch of interconnected wires and pixels on a screen... rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things, my friend.

hermand · Jun 10, 2009

Schoey93 said:
James.Cos - that personal attack was unnecessary. I am very capable of achieving an admirable ATAR, unless I'm just some retard whose whole life is a halucination, and all of the good marks I got did not actually exist. Maybe I'm just a brain in a vat of life-preserving fluid, hm?

I will not 'do shit', as you said, James.

Tommy - not true. I do know a lot of things, not everything, but quite a bit. And what I do know is that LAZARUS... a BoS user has actually suggested your assessment mark is equal to the exam mark of your rank. Ranked twenty, assessment mark = HSC external exam mark (twentieth best in your cohort).

Perhaps I misunderstood him, but this is the essence of my interpretation of what was typed by the moderator himself. If he is still active, and wishes to comment, any advice or links to appropriate information would be appreciated (either via BoS PM or in this thread).

And Tommy, don't tell me I know nothing. I am NOT a useless twat, far from it; please don't make value judgements based on my Internet persona. I am... I am a completely different person in the real world. This is just virtual (non-existent), this forum is just a bunch of interconnected wires and pixels on a screen... rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things, my friend.

go read up on moderation more yeah? cause that's not how it's done. if you search these forums, i made a post a few weeks ago about the moderation of assessment marks and how they're done. go look it up.

as for scaling, it's 100% fair. people who do four unit maths and english should be rewarded. end of story.

EDIT; http://community.boredofstudies.org...na/211121/bigbigbig-question.html#post4357996 is the link to that post. i'm sure you'll find a bunch more like that somewhere.

helper · Jun 10, 2009

Schoey93 said:
Perhaps I misunderstood him, but this is the essence of my interpretation of what was typed by the moderator himself. If he is still active, and wishes to comment, any advice or links to appropriate information would be appreciated (either via BoS PM or in this thread).

Here is a document that describes how moderation works.
http://www.users.on.net/~unix/HSCmarks.pdf

It comes from:
http://community.boredofstudies.org...na/6642/explanation-hsc-marks-moderating.html

In small case examples it looks like you receive the marks in rank order, in fact it is based on a regression.

Lazarus · Jun 10, 2009

Schoey93 said:
And what I do know is that LAZARUS... a BoS user has actually suggested your assessment mark is equal to the exam mark of your rank. Ranked twenty, assessment mark = HSC external exam mark (twentieth best in your cohort).

Perhaps I misunderstood him, but this is the essence of my interpretation of what was typed by the moderator himself. If he is still active, and wishes to comment, any advice or links to appropriate information would be appreciated (either via BoS PM or in this thread).

I think I suggested it was a useful way of thinking about what happens, but it's not what actually happens.

The threads linked to by helper explain the process, and you can try it out yourself here.

tommykins · Jun 10, 2009

Schoey93 said:
Tommy - not true. I do know a lot of things, not everything, but quite a bit. And what I do know is that LAZARUS... a BoS user has actually suggested your assessment mark is equal to the exam mark of your rank. Ranked twenty, assessment mark = HSC external exam mark (twentieth best in your cohort).

Then don't prance around like you know what you're talking about mate, you're bashing onto a system you don't even understand.

And Tommy, don't tell me I know nothing. I am NOT a useless twat, far from it; please don't make value judgements based on my Internet persona. I am... I am a completely different person in the real world. This is just virtual (non-existent), this forum is just a bunch of interconnected wires and pixels on a screen... rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things, my friend.

wah wah wah wah wah wah wah.

samthebear · Jun 10, 2009

There is a reason why scaling and moderation has been used - its to make things more leveled. While i dont 100% agree with everything that they do to our raw marks its an understandable process which has to be done.

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ther; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1610611985 1073750139 0 0 159 0;} @font-face {font-family:"\@SimSun"; panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1; mso-font-charset:134; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:3 680460288 22 0 262145 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:10.0pt; margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoPapDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; margin-bottom:10.0pt; line-height:115%;} @page Section1 {size:595.3pt 841.9pt; margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt; mso-header-margin:35.4pt; mso-footer-margin:35.4pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} -->*</style>your HSC isnt even for another 2 years what're you doing on BOS whinging about something that doesnt affect you till then? cross the bridge when you get to it kiddo. Hell i'm doing my HSC this year and i'm still living in a little cloud of oblibvion just doing my study/stressing over school assesments not even stressing about scaling (in any case i dont have any more emotional energy to expand on worrying about the scaling process. School assesments; which directly affect you, will have a larger impact on you in terms of stress) - its something you cant control apart from your raw marks so focus on getting good raw marks in rather than get unnessarily worked up over a process you cant control

I suggest you focus on the impending bridge called the School Certificate before you start to deal with the next bridge.
If you dont cross the bridge in front of you, you'll never get to the bridge past it.

LobbSACS · Jun 11, 2009

ITT: a bunch of year 11 and 10 kids who think they are doing the hsc RITE THIS SECOND AND MUST RAGE ABOUT IT ON BOS.

STFU you fucking year 10 fags. if you dont like the way the UAI/ATAR is calculated, then get 100 in every subject so that it does not impact you.

EDIT: no shit your pissed about the way UAC works, you picked dud subjects and your probs worried about getting a ATAR of like 68, which you will then blame on the calculation system that UAC uses, instead of blaming your self for spending all your time thinking up differnt ways that UAC could calculate ATARS instead of doing work.

Official · Jun 11, 2009

LobbSACS said:
ITT: a bunch of year 11 and 10 kids who think they are doing the hsc RITE THIS SECOND AND MUST RAGE ABOUT IT ON BOS.

STFU you fucking year 10 fags. if you dont like the way the UAI/ATAR is calculated, then get 100 in every subject so that it does not impact you.

EDIT: no shit your pissed about the way UAC works, you picked dud subjects and your probs worried about getting a ATAR of like 68, which you will then blame on the calculation system that UAC uses, instead of blaming your self for spending all your time thinking up differnt ways that UAC could calculate ATARS instead of doing work.

+1! Even though I'm in year 10 lol

duckcowhybrid · Jun 11, 2009

LobbSACS said:
ITT: a bunch of year 11 and 10 kids who think they are doing the hsc RITE THIS SECOND AND MUST RAGE ABOUT IT ON BOS.

STFU you fucking year 10 fags. if you dont like the way the UAI/ATAR is calculated, then get 100 in every subject so that it does not impact you.

EDIT: no shit your pissed about the way UAC works, you picked dud subjects and your probs worried about getting a ATAR of like 68, which you will then blame on the calculation system that UAC uses, instead of blaming your self for spending all your time thinking up differnt ways that UAC could calculate ATARS instead of doing work.

tommykins said:
Then don't prance around like you know what you're talking about mate, you're bashing onto a system you don't even understand.

wah wah wah wah wah wah wah.

hermand said:
go read up on moderation more yeah? cause that's not how it's done. if you search these forums, i made a post a few weeks ago about the moderation of assessment marks and how they're done. go look it up.

as for scaling, it's 100% fair. people who do four unit maths and english should be rewarded. end of story.

EDIT; http://community.boredofstudies.org...na/211121/bigbigbig-question.html#post4357996 is the link to that post. i'm sure you'll find a bunch more like that somewhere.

EVERY QUOTED POST HAS BEEN FUCKING REPPED FOR LEGENDARY AWESOMNESS

James Schofield, shut the fuck up, stop whining and go do your School Certificate past papers as it sounds like you need to do some, or GTFO and go operate your fucking kitchen. Also I know 100 UAI kids that struggle financially. So don't give me that shit. Yes you are just some hallucinating retard, spending your life on this forum, calling a bunch of pixels a personal attack, and no you aren't a brain in a vat of life perserving fluid. You're a vat filled with life preserving fluid, and nothing else. No brain, nothing. You fucking stutter online (I am.. I am),and being a completely fucking different person IRL makes you a fake, a poser, a liar and a cheat. Have fun getting 28.80 ATAR, because that's probably too hard for you ATARD.

-may-cat- · Jun 11, 2009

Bit harsh..

youngminii · Jun 11, 2009

These kids will become epic trolls one day.

tommykins · Jun 11, 2009

atard - gotta pay that call HAHAHa

aussie-boy · Jun 12, 2009

James Cos said:
At present, the method of scaling used to compare different courses in the calculation of the aggregate is 100% fair - because there is no human intervention at all, and there are no assumptions made about the difficulty of each course. Scaling of each course is carried out afresh each year, using a complex mathematical algorithm - looking at the relative performance of candidates in each course, compared to their performance in other courses.

Its not 100% fair, because some subjects are easier than others.
These attract dumb students, and as a result any smart students whose interests lie in that area have their marks pulled down by the rest of the cohort.

Currently, if you want a top UAI, you have to choose 'hard' subjects, even if you detest them. This in itself compromises your performance, since you can lack any interest in them. So basically its a lose lose situation for anyone with a high IQ who hates both English and Maths - this is why it has to be changed.

Timothy.Siu · Jun 12, 2009

aussie-boy said:
Its not 100% fair, because some subjects are easier than others.
These attract dumb students, and as a result any smart students whose interests lie in that area have their marks pulled down by the rest of the cohort.

Currently, if you want a top UAI, you have to choose 'hard' subjects, even if you detest them. This in itself compromises your performance, since you can lack any interest in them. So basically its a lose lose situation for anyone with a high IQ who hates both English and Maths - this is why it has to be changed.

no u dont

annabackwards · Jun 12, 2009

Timothy.Siu said:
no u dont

+1

Stop whining, if you don't like the scaling process then just get an IB instead!

sonyaleeisapixi · Jun 12, 2009

aussie-boy said:
Its not 100% fair, because some subjects are easier than others.
These attract dumb students, and as a result any smart students whose interests lie in that area have their marks pulled down by the rest of the cohort.

Currently, if you want a top UAI, you have to choose 'hard' subjects, even if you detest them. This in itself compromises your performance, since you can lack any interest in them. So basically its a lose lose situation for anyone with a high IQ who hates both English and Maths - this is why it has to be changed.

wrong. a high uai is acheivable with any subject combination
eg, i did 4 units of english, 5 units of history, society and culture and general maths and scored 95.25
no science, effectively no math as my maths didnt count

youve been proven either wrong or misinformed on a number of accounts
so, a few points
1. calm down, and focus on year 10 for now.
2. go back and reassess not only why youre wrong, but why you care. clearly the vast majority students undertaking lower scale subjects not only know theyre lowly scale (and why) but dont care (and if they do care they work their assess off regardless). youre pretty sure youre going to do brilliantly so the processes how by you come to get a great mark really shouldnt affect you if thats the case.
because lets face it, no one is going to listen to you if you can be so easilly torn apart by peers in a public forum.

khorne · Jun 13, 2009

Retards who whine about scaling...consider this:

1) The official BOS doesn't pay attention to you, thus thread is pointless
2) You didn't propose another system, thus arguement is flawed
3) You have no idea how to compare different students with different subjects (as above)
4) You have no considered that a system must exist to compre different students, and that this system has been around for years without any major disadvantage.
5) The HSC is not unfair, only people who screw it up say it is.

aussie-boy · Jun 13, 2009

sonyaleeisapixi said:
wrong. a high uai is acheivable with any subject combination
eg, i did 4 units of english, 5 units of history, society and culture and general maths and scored 95.25
no science, effectively no math as my maths didnt count

youve been proven either wrong or misinformed on a number of accounts
so, a few points
1. calm down, and focus on year 10 for now.
2. go back and reassess not only why youre wrong, but why you care. clearly the vast majority students undertaking lower scale subjects not only know theyre lowly scale (and why) but dont care (and if they do care they work their assess off regardless). youre pretty sure youre going to do brilliantly so the processes how by you come to get a great mark really shouldnt affect you if thats the case.
because lets face it, no one is going to listen to you if you can be so easilly torn apart by peers in a public forum.

I did the HSC last year, just like you, and I ranked higher than you.

Don't try and tell me your UAI would have been anything like that if you hadn't been interested enough in English to do both Ext 1 and 2. Find me a person who got 99+ without ext maths or ext english and then I will concede that I am wrong.

I didn't ever say you can't get a high UAI with any subject selection, just that you will go worse than your peers who have the same IQ but different interests.

I care because its unfair and plays to the academic arrogance of certain fields - aren't these good reasons?

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