The Beijing Olympics (2 Viewers)

[Slidey]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Thanks Dongle.

And if you look up wiki, since you like that site so much, Slidey, it says that China's govt is "Socialist Republic".

It also says Australia is a monarchy. It's not exactly wrong, but would anybody call Australia a monarchy in typical conversation?

Guess what the political party in power is? The Communist Party of China. Further, China's consistution gurantees that the only legitimate political party is the Communist Party.

Yeah, so not communist at all.

 

[_dhj_]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

It also says Australia is a monarchy. It's not exactly wrong, but would anybody call Australia a monarchy in typical conversation?

Guess what the political party in power is? The Communist Party of China. Further, China's consistution gurantees that the only legitimate political party is the Communist Party.

Yeah, so not communist at all.

Well your analogy works the other way around actually.

Australia is a constitutional monarchy de jure, but has a parliamentary system of government de facto, with the executive power vested in the cabinet rather than in the Queen in practice. Likewise China is in name ruled by the Community Party; the ideology the party actually practices is not communist but rather authoritarian and market-based. Of course it's common to say that China is a "communist state" but who cares what the average Joe or senator Brown calls it? We're concerned about accurately describing the reality.

 

[Dongle]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Well your analogy works the other way around actually.

Australia is a constitutional monarchy de jure, but has a parliamentary system of government de facto, with the executive power vested in the cabinet rather than in the Queen in practice. Likewise China is in name ruled by the Community Party; the ideology the party actually practices is not communist but rather authoritarian and market-based. Of course it's common to say that China is a "communist state" but who cares what the average Joe or senator Brown calls it? We're concerned about accurately describing the reality.

Yeah, that's quite true.

It's the point I was trying to make originally - what the Chinese government is in practice rather than in name.

Anyway, I think discussion about the Beijing Olympics has veered off course. Or has this thread showed its true colours - a thinly veiled, hypocritical, morally self-righteous excuse to attack and defame the Chinese people?

 

[abbeyroad]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

The rest of the world will be pretty much f*cked once China has democracy anyway. I mean nothing could be scarier when China joins the Western world as one of the most liberal countries; when it can legitimately influence the affairs of every nation on earth and keep pouring its educated, refined citizens to every corner of the world. Why are you so eager for that to happen?

On a more serious note. It is not a question of what China currently is, but rather what it will become. China can and will become a stable democracy; China will become a world superpower rival that of the United States, whether you like it or not. The desire to be free is imprinted in the nature of every man, and any government can be overthrown given the right catalyst. Though you'd be grossly mistaken if you think that you can do it by dabbling in symbolics. You can debate Chinese politics on an interwebz forum, boycott the Olympics, or even join the FREE TIBET or whatever movement all you want, but please, leave the revolution to the Chinese.

 

[DownInFlames]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Almost the entire history of the modern olympic games has been riddled with politics. It's about time we had a break from it. There are more contructive ways of making something happen than boycotting an event which is meant to promote worldwide peace and unity. Anyway, if we don't go, who will be there to win all the medals?

 

[TacoTerrorist]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

I can say however that there is 100% no point boycotting the Olympics the athletes have worked too hard

Athletes suck. 'Omg look at me I can run fast I deserve millions in sponsorship deals.' No. We should boycott this event for the following reasons:

1) To stick it to the athletes by saying we don't support their crap

2) To stick it to China by saying we don't support their Tibet crap

3) So what decent shows that are left on television don't get swamped by Olympics crap.

 

[DownInFlames]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

3) So what decent shows that are left on television don't get swamped by Olympics crap.

Let us hope they sacrifice ACA, TodayTonight, It's Academic and Home & Away to the olympic coverage. This will surely meet the criteria of working for the common good.

 

[_dhj_]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

de jour. Christ.

no de jour is french meaning "of the day" or something (i came last in french class so don't quote me on that). de jure is latin

 

[bazookajoe]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Athletes suck. 'Omg look at me I can run fast I deserve millions in sponsorship deals.' No. We should boycott this event for the following reasons:

1) To stick it to the athletes by saying we don't support their crap

2) To stick it to China by saying we don't support their Tibet crap

3) So what decent shows that are left on television don't get swamped by Olympics crap.

1) Ummmmm Australia loves sports. Plain and simple. Everybody loves somebody who brings home gold. You're an ignorant fool
2) How about other countries sticking it to us over Iraq? You're an ignorant fool
3) There are no decent shows on channel seven. You're an ignorant fool

 

[jb_nc]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

de jure this thread would be closed in communist china

in communist china, thread closes you

 

[Collin]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Or has this thread showed its true colours - a thinly veiled, hypocritical, morally self-righteous excuse to attack and defame the Chinese people?

Threads like these usually reduce to something like this, unfortunately.

Regarding your quintessential point:
"It's the point I was trying to make originally - what the Chinese government is in practice rather than in name."

I feel a good number of people here openly critical of China would most probably be quite aware of this - but purposely choose to ignore it for the sake of maintaining the momentum in their anti-China tirade.

 

[Collin]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Athletes suck.

No, you suck.

 

[JaredR]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

The occupation of Tibet by China is brutal with no protective or military considerations to justify it. The Chinese government has built a plethora of settlements in Tibet.

The Chinese have flooded Tibet with so many ethnic Chinese that Tibetans have become a minority in their own land.

As the Dalai Lama summarised in 2000:

"Tibet seems no closer to freedom. Although human rights appeals have had little effect thus far, these appeals iwll no doubt continue to be made; this may eventually help the Tibetans in their fight for self-determination and an end to population transfers....In 1999 alone there have been six known cases of deaths resulting from torture and abuse. Authorities have expelled a total of 1432 monks and nuns from their monasteries and nunneries...Since 1996 a total of 11,409 monks and nuns have been expelled....

Despite the horrendous record of the Chinese, the UN has never condemned China or recognised the rights of Tibetans to self-determination. Instead the international community gave China the Olympics. Funny that.

The world too has forgotten about the Kurds, the Armenians in Turkey, the Chechnens, the Basques, and dozens of other stateless groups.

But now we're stuck with a Prime Minister wanting to get into the back pocket of China, I doubt we'll see much pressure.

Again I reiterate as I did in another post. I miss you John Howard. At least he fought for allegiances to the true democracies of the world.

 

[Aerath]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Let us hope they sacrifice ACA, TodayTonight, It's Academic and Home & Away to the olympic coverage. This will surely meet the criteria of working for the common good.

What's wrong with It's Academic?

 

[Slidey]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

I feel a good number of people here openly critical of China would most probably be quite aware of this - but purposely choose to ignore it for the sake of maintaining the momentum in their anti-China tirade.

Yeah, because whether or not the Chinese government is economically communist can completely nullify their disgusting human rights abuses, right?

Tool.

 

[Collin]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Yeah, because whether or not the Chinese government is economically communist can completely nullify their disgusting human rights abuses, right?

Tool.

Obviously not you moron, and that evidently wasn't the point of my post.

Right, the party is called the 'Communist Party of China'. By logical deduction, that must mean it's irrefutably communist. Yeah, OK.

Seriously Slidey, do you think I'm some uninformed troll who isn't aware of China's human rights abuses? I've had relatives who had been imprisoned for years and tortured by the CCP. Do you think I'm some 'communist-lover'? Do you?

No one here is denying that the Chinese government isn't clean. But if you seriously think that there isn't unfair bias against China by some forumites in these types of discussions, you need to pull your head out of your arse.

 

[Slidey]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Obviously not you moron, and that evidently wasn't the point of my post.

Right, the party is called the 'Communist Party of China'. By logical deduction, that must mean it's irrefutably communist. Yeah, OK.

Seriously Slidey, do you think I'm some uninformed troll who isn't aware of China's human rights abuses? I've had relatives who had been imprisoned for years and tortured by the CCP. Do you think I'm some 'communist-lover'? Do you?

No one here is denying that the Chinese government isn't clean. But if you seriously think that there isn't unfair bias against China by some forumites in these types of discussions, you need to pull your head out of your arse.

"Unfair bias against China"? Could you give examples? You act as if all the people criticising the Chinese government have some hidden agenda and are full of bias, thus somehow nullifying their criticisms.

If something is demonic, ought we not treat it as such instead of trying to defend it?

 

[_dhj_]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

If something is demonic, ought we not treat it as such instead of trying to defend it?

And its corollary: if something isn't demonic, ought we treat it as if it is?

 

[Towelie]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

And its corollary: if something isn't demonic, ought we treat it as if it is?

Towel thinks the human rights abuses in China is preeetty demonic, man.

 

[Collin]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

"Unfair bias against China"? Could you give examples?

Where do I start?

The whole boycotting of the Olympics deal to begin with. China isn't the only place where ethics often become questionable, you know? I'm pretty sure if the United States were to host the Olympics this year, there wouldn't be as much international furore and tendency for calls of boycott even though they seem rather content on starting illegal invasions of other sovereign nations.

As for picking out personal forumites, I'm going to keep away from that. But since I'm addressing you, I'm sure you won't mind if I atleast nominate yourself. Just a quick flick back a few pages and I've got some candidates. Examples include a predisposition to dwell on the 'communist' nametag, well.. probably because that helps to paint China in a bad light.

Blatant support to comments like this doesn't help:
"Sure, but does that make it inherently incorrect?"

Er, yes it does.
"there's so many fucking Chinese people coming here more than any other Asian neighbours" = false. India > China.
Your agreement over comments like 'China wants to take over Australia', that we might end up like Taiwan and that we should be cautious of Rudd because he can speak Chinese speaks for itself. Joking or not, it's not appropriate, and it shows alot about your character with regards to this issue.

Antagonistically dismissing a factually-crude, arguably racist comment in favour of maintaining your anti-China momentum isn't exactly ideal, is it? The last time I checked, racism and abusing human rights were both wrong.

You act as if all the people criticising the Chinese government have some hidden agenda and are full of bias, thus somehow nullifying their criticisms.

Not all. Some.

I never said or hinted 'all'. Infact, I could assert that you act like as if all people who question the words of people who criticise the Chinese government must somehow automatically be wrong or be communist sympathisers. Is that a fair assumption? Probably not, so I don't appreciate you labelling me in that fashion, thank you very much.

If something is demonic, ought we not treat it as such instead of trying to defend it?

Yes, but fairly. As for defending, is that personally addressed to me?

Because as far as I can see, I've pretty much only made firm stances on two areas here:
- No boycott
- Playing fair with criticisms

If you're suggesting in any way that I'm trying to defend China's human rights record, you're way off the mark.